Carolyn Hax has a nice, tart way of getting right to the heart of the matter. In this following letter and her response, she rightly chides the writer about assuming that this man will take the initiative in asking her to marry him, when he clearly is passive and does not initiate much of anything. What she neglects to emphasize is that the relationship is SEVEN YEARS in length, they have had a child together, and marriage has not been discussed? And also, why should this guy get married? What more would he get from the arrangement by getting married?
A huge red flag here is that the man previously lived with his mother most of his life. While we do not know how old he is, the woman in question has grown daughters, so he is probably in his 40’s at least. Not a good omen. While there have always been men—and women—who live their whole lives with their parents, that situation would be evident in a traditional courtship pattern, where the individuals would have known each other and/or the families. With Internet dating, it is easy for people who otherwise might not be on the dating market to list themselves on a dating site as available. Other singles cannot be faulted for assuming that an older adult is on their own or has had experience being so. But buyer beware: Investigate carefully the living situations of your prospective dates.
Carolyn Hax: She’s the only force moving ‘Inertia Man’
Girlfriend is only one moving relationship along.
By CAROLYN HAX
Dear Carolyn: I have been with my boyfriend for seven years. We began dating because I asked him out. I was the first to say, “I love you.” I was the one, after two years, who brought up moving in together. He had no children and wanted a child, but I am the one who brought up children: My daughters were adults when my boyfriend and I had our child. In seven years, I seem to have been the only one making decisions about our future.
So I refuse to bring up marriage. I wanted it to come from him, I needed him to want it, and I waited very patiently. I find myself becoming very bitter that this man obviously does not want to marry me. I know he would if it became an issue.
I do not want to break up my family. I want to be in a relationship knowing the other intends to spend the rest of his life with me. We split expenses. He has a financial cushion; I struggle paycheck to paycheck. I was a single young mother and struggled all my life. He lived with his mother for the majority of his life and has managed to invest and save.
It is not about the money, though I do feel as if we are two separate islands. I feel so very lonely. I feel like I would be happier without him, but what cost would my child pay for my happiness? My boyfriend and I rarely argue and get along quite well. Our child is happy and content. It is only me who is miserable.
Carolyn says: I get why you’re miserable, and why you pinpoint your boyfriend’s failure to merge your “separate islands” as the source of your misery.
But I can also argue that you’ve brought misery upon yourself.
You say your boyfriend didn’t put any moves on you, didn’t volunteer I-love-yous, didn’t pine to live with you, didn’t take the initiative to have a child, and (theatrical throat-clearing here) didn’t even leave his mother’s nest to go out and feather his own.
So how, exactly, did he become someone in your mind who would ever initiate anything?
Ooohh, I just don’t know how I feel about this one. The photo with the article (follow the link and maybe you can see it too) shows a very overweight man with a slim, attractive woman, and the article makes clear he is 15 years older than she is. Now, he may have gained the weight since meeting her, but this is such a clear case of a less marketable man (at least with similarly aged American women) using money and the promise of life in the USA to get a young, pretty, and desperate woman. The ick factor for me is high. What about for you?
Inter-racial couple finds true love online
By Henni Espinosa, ABS-CBN North America News Bureau
ORINDA, California – An inter-racial couple found each other 6 years ago through a dating website.
Filipina Rhoda Mae Sancho, 35, and American Rick Vincent, 50, found the love online.
Sancho was born poor in Bacolod City. She was only a high school graduate, unemployed and desperate to get out of the country. She saved P20.00 a day to go an Internet café with the goal of finding true love online.
“Kahit mahirap ako, tinitiis ko talaga na maka-Internet, makatagpo ako ng mabait na Amerikano, makapunta ako dito para maiahon ko rin ang pamilya ko sa hirap,” said Sancho.
In 2004, she found Vincent through a dating website. Vincent is a millionaire stockbroker from the Bay Area who was ready to start a family.
A few months after their first online chat, Vincent flew to the Philippines to meet Sancho and her family for the first time.
“Pinangkra ko talaga siya, sabi ko ‘I’m so sorry. I cannot speak too much English kasi I’m only high school graduate. Sabi niya, ‘It’s okay. I understand what you’re saying.’ Sabi ko, ‘Thanks God!’” Sancho recalled.
For Vincent, it was love at first sight. Because he fell in love with Sancho, he also felt the need to help her and her family out of poverty.
“I knew that if I wanted to marry a Filipina girl, I had to make her parents happy. That’s what I did my first trip. I brought my mother-in-law 2 boxes of See’s Candies,” said Vincent.
“Parang hindi ako makapaniwala na lahat ibinigay niya sa akin. Yung gusto ko lang mahalin niya yung anak ko kasi lumaki siyang walang tatay,” said Sancho.
Not only did Vincent become Sancho’s husband on January 2005, he also became a father to Juliana, her daughter from a previous relationship. Juliana is now 8.
Soon, Sancho bore Vincent 2 children—Charlotte, now 2, and Kenneth, now 10-months old.
While they live comfortably in the US, Vincent has not forgotten to take care of Rhoda’s family and relatives in the Philippines.
He now sends 22 nieces and nephews, even children of Sancho’s friends, to school.
He also bought her parents a new home where he plans to build a swimming pool for them.
Vincent said the secret to an inter-racial marriage is the same as any other marriage.
“I make sure that when she says something, I say, ‘Yes, Hon,’” he said.
“Yung love, walang pinipili yan. Kung nagmamahalan kayo talaga, hindi importante kung sino ka man, kung ano ka man,” said Sancho.
More about matching than maybe you want to know….
High-End Matchmakers Dish on Dating
By Val Brown
Online dating has become increasingly de-stigmatized, but there are many who still aren’t comfortable having their photo online and publicly admitting they need help finding a mate: the powerful, the wealthy, and the well-known to name a few. And though you’d think they would have fewer problems than us mere mortals in finding a significant other, apparently they suffer the same slings, arrows and bad dates as the rest of us. Their solution: professional, pricey, discreet matchmakers. They are not the kind of guys who go on on “Millionaire Matchmaker.”
By “they,” I mean men. Men make up the majority of a high end matchmaker’s clients. Women are generally not the clients but potential matches for the men; and in most cases, they simply pay an application or interview fee. I don’t think this is any sexist plot by the modern day Dolly Levi’s, only a reflection of a dating dynamic that is still alive and well—at least where well-to-do men are concerned.
I spoke recently with three matchmakers, Richard Easton, Janis Spindel and Samantha Daniels. Though New York based, all work with clients across the country (and internationally), and Daniels keeps an LA office as well. All offer a unique perspective and approach to their services, and all have toe-curling prices.
How much will this set a guy back? From $25,000-$100,000, depending on the matchmaker and your deal. This will give you a year to 18 months of matches. Matchmaker Richard Easton, new to the New York market and an anomaly among matchmakers—most are women—says he challenges the price resistance he sometimes encounters with a car analogy. “I’m working with guys who pay $150 grand for a car without the blink of an eye. So I ask them, ‘What’s 50K to find your life partner?’” Fair point. He does offer a $10K starter rate for young Wall St. and Silicon Alley/Valley types as well.
A personable former head of his own boutique M&A firm, Easton has parlayed his expertise in marrying companies into the more rewarding realm of marrying hearts and minds. He says he offers a different perspective on the art cum science. “Men feel more comfortable with me, they will say things to me that they won’t say to a woman, about what they’re looking for, what works and doesn’t.” Putting on my marketing hat, it does make sense that that his branding appeals to masculine sensibilities, with nary a heart or pink flower in sight.
Janis Spindel, the doyenne of New York matchmaking, might disagree. A smart, sassy tsunami of self-confidence, Spindel has the chutzpa and sixth sense needed to ferret out the perfect match for her clients . She’ll approach anyone woman who fits the bill—in gyms, Barneys, a parking garage, on the street. A former fashion sales director, she boasts an uncanny ability to know who is right for whom. With hundreds of marriages and countless relationships in her 17 year career, her combination of intuition, persuasion, and calculation—a quick up and down glance can tell her a lot—are her stock in trade. And she gets results.
“You get invited, you go.” So said Samantha Daniel’s grandmother when she was a girl, and she’s been going ever since, attending events, fundraisers, dinners, reunions—not to directly sell or recruit, but to network. She takes a soft sell approach to her metier. A former divorce attorney, Daniels traded acrimony for harmony, deciding she’d rather bring people together than break them apart. She launched her agency in New York 11 years ago, then set up an office in L.A. after going there to produce the TV show based on her life, “Miss Match.” Very social in both cities, she takes on high profile women as paying clients as well—studio heads, CEO’s, and other successful women who need equally successful—or incredibly well- adjusted—men who will not be intimidated by their success. And Daniel’s former career gives her great insight into what breaks couples up (number one: poor communication), so she can offer clear-headed advice as clients embark upon relationships or marriage.
With all the matchmakers I couldn’t help but think that there are some real sad sacks on their books, but they all insist their clients are actually quite social, popular—but just haven’t found the right person.
And while the price of admission is high for men, money will get you in regardless of your age, height, or attractiveness (though I’m assured that the overly odious are turned down). And if you’re not looking your best, you’ll be sent off to an image consultant for a male makeover.
In order to get on the “roster,” women must be very attractive, fit, be either book smart or street smart, and have a successful career of some sort. “Ivy league educated” gets thrown around a lot in describing both the men and women on the matchmakers’ books. Most women are under 40, with some exceptions. (How old are the men? 27 to 78.) They don’t accept many short women, though they do keep a small pool for very short men. They ask for “natural beauty”, so presumably those botoxed into a state of forehead catatonia or sporting impossibly perky triple D’s are less desirable.
I am curious about how they weed out the gold diggers—why would a beautiful, Ivy League educated 25 year old woman need a dating service to find a man? Spindel assures me she can spot them a mile away, and they won’t get on her roster. Perhaps it’s just time management for these 25 year olds—better to shoot gilded fish in a barrel than trawl through the charity, club or Hamptons circuit for five years.
Whether it was to butter me up to write a positive article, or there was some genuine interest, they all said they may have some guys for me. “How old will you go?” Janis inquired.
“Well, if they’re youthful and in shape, 60. 65 in a pinch.” She seemed surprised. I am way over 40, but I know from internet dating that 45 or 50 year old guys are generally not looking for women their age. You have to go older. And anyway, I’ve always liked older men. And younger, come to think of it.
Daniels asks if I would be willing to relocate? Hmm. L.A., London, Paris…? Sure. A zillion acre ranch in Montana? No.
I’m a little trepidatious. I’ve made a good living and have never targeted wealthy men as suitors. I’ve mostly gone for the starving artists. They suited my creative sensibilities, and I’ve also thought that if I were with someone wealthy I would give up some of my power. I’ve never understood how people can marry for money, not love. That would be torture for me—a waste of good years of my life.
So we’ll see if these matchmakers come up with the goods. I’ll keep you posted. If you see me in a restaurant with a 78-year-old, you’ll know it was a set-up .
Women in our culture have traditionally tried to ‘marry up,” that is, find men of higher social or economic class. It makes sense from a biological point of view: These men should be better able to provide for a wife and family. The technical term is hypergamy. Men do the opposite: trade their money and power for youth and beauty. This kind of imbalance exists in cultures where there is gender inequality. But now as women are catching up and sometimes surpassing men career- and money-wise, there are fewer men for educated, successful women to marry up to. Ergo, a cultural shift: educated successful women are prudently considering men who could be seen as “less than.” The real consideration here is if the man is good husband material. Plenty of powerful, educated men are real jerks and poor husbands.
Education, income and relationships
By Stephanie Chen, CNN
May 17, 2010 9:12 a.m. EDT
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
* Pew: Women made more than men in 22 percent of married couples surveyed in 2007
* “It doesn’t bother me one bit that she makes more money,” says one husband
* Expert: Relationships where women are more educated can work if values are the same
(CNN)—If dating is a numbers game, then single ladies should consider this: A Pew Research Center report this year noted a surge in women between the ages of 30 and 44 making more money than their husbands.
Women made more money than men in 22 percent of married couples surveyed in 2007, compared with 4 percent in 1970. While men make more money overall and hold more management positions, women are making greater gains.
“The supply of men has changed,” said D’Vera Cohn, senior writer at the Pew Research Center’s Social and Demographic Trends project. “The pool of college educated men isn’t growing as rapidly as it is for women.”
There is also a gender shift in the realm of education. Women represent nearly 60 percent of students holding advanced degrees in areas such as medicine, law, business and graduate programs, the U.S. Census reported in April.
Researchers have found educational attainment to be a higher priority among couples than ever. Popular online dating sites Match.com and eHarmony report that romances happen occasionally between educated, professional women and men who are less educated or have a lower salary.
Leah MacIsaac-Ruff, 45, works 11-hour-plus-days as a technology vice president at a Wall Street firm. She has a college degree. So does her husband, Doug, 43, who walks dogs for a living.
MacIsaac-Ruff may be the breadwinner, but she finds her husband’s career choice refreshing.
“If I were to marry a type-A personality and we sat on our computers side by side in the evenings, I think I’d die,” she says. “I think I’d be in a cold relationship. The last thing I want is to go home to an investment banker.”
Despite their job disparities, the couple share enjoyment of the opera and theater. When they attend her upscale corporate events, she isn’t embarrassed when people ask about her husband’s profession. Instead, people are intrigued by his dog-walking job.
“It doesn’t bother me one bit that she makes more money,” said her husband one morning as he was gearing up to walk 15 dogs. “I couldn’t be more proud of what she’s done in the business world.”
The recession has shaken some traditional gender expectations, said several marriage and family experts. About 4.7 million jobs were lost among men during the recession, according to April figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Two million women lost their jobs, the report said, leaving more women to become sole supporters of their families.
Particularly among the millennial generation, people are less likely to have gripes with a woman who earns more and has more education, said Nicole Johnson, a spokeswoman for the National Association of Professional Women. Her organization represents 150,000 women, with a majority working in a white-collar profession.
“At one point, the stereotype was a man might feel inferior to a woman who is at a higher point in her career than he is,” Johnson said. “I think that’s dissipated a bit, where there aren’t these built-in expectations of who should be above.”
Educated, professional women exposed to men working lower-paying jobs growing up are more likely to date them, said Amadu Jacky Kaba, a sociology professor at Seton Hall University in New Jersey. “When they see a hard-working garbage collector or different kinds of lower-level jobs, then they trust them,” Kaba said.
Robin Coates, 45, of Mobile, Alabama, found starting a relationship with her boyfriend, Sam, a 39-year-old who installs floors, to be tricky. Coates works as a creative director and has a college degree. She, too, makes more money than her boyfriend, who dropped out of school in the eighth grade.
“Many years ago he said, ‘I’m not the guy for you. You need to be dating a guy with a suit and tie,’ ” she said.
Coates said they have dated for eight years and plan to get married soon.
Dating a man who makes less money or hasn’t attained as high a level of education can be difficult, said Whitney Casey, a dating expert at Match.com, the online dating site for singles. She said the differences can work if the couple has similar goals and values.
“There are benefits, too,” she said. “It can open your world and make you become a better-rounded person.”
Men are more interested in sex than women? No surprise here, but interesting research to back it up.
Even in Old Age, Men Want Sex More Than Women Do
By John Cloud Tuesday
Spring is coming, and a young man’s thoughts turn to ... you know. Apparently, old men’s thoughts turn to the same subject. According to an article to be published Wednesday in the British Medical Journal, 67% of men ages 65 to 74 said they had been sexually active in the past year, compared with just 40% of women in that age group. Everyone knows young men think constantly about sex, but many guys remain interested in sex until they are almost dead: more than one-third of men ages 75 to 85 said they had sex in the past 12 months, compared with just 17% of women in that age group.
Some of this surely has to do with Viagra, which makes it easier for older men to be interested in sex. But the disparity in sexual activity between older men and older women isn’t entirely explained by the 1998 release of the little blue pill. One set of data presented in the new paper — taken from the National Survey of Midlife Development, involving about 3,000 adults ages 25 to 74 — was collected in 1995 and 1996. That data set shows that 62% of men ages 65 to 74 reported sexual activity in the previous six months; only 36% of women in the same age group did so.
These differences matter because having a healthy sex life is strongly associated with having a healthy life, period — and also a longer life. Scientists aren’t sure about the causal relationship here. Sexually active people tend to be healthier, and healthier people tend to be sexually active. It could be that the fulfillment of sex gives you a health boost, or that being more fit makes sex better — or, more likely, it’s a little of both.
What we do know, from this new paper, is that if you are a 30-year-old male, you can be expected to have sex for 35 more years. The authors — Dr. Stacy Tessler Lindau and researcher Natalia Gavrilova of the University of Chicago — call this measure your “sexually active life expectancy,” or SALE. A 30-year-old woman has a SALE of just 31 more years. (The study also finds that men and women who stay healthy and in good shape gain extra years of sexually active life in older age, compared with their peers in poorer health.) But women live about five years longer than men, so when you do the math, all this means that women go approximately twice as long without sex as men before they die.
Older women also enjoy the sex they do have far less than older men. Married women ages 57 to 64 who haven’t been divorced or widowed report having about as much sex as married men in the same age group. But while 77% of partnered men in that age group say they are interested in sex, only 36% of partnered women report the same interest. These figures suggest that a lot of older women may be having sex when they don’t really want to.
Lindau, the lead author on the paper, is cautious about drawing strong conclusions from this variance. “It may be that women are more likely to have sex for reasons other than fulfilling pleasure — or that they are more interested in giving a partner satisfaction,” she says. “Maybe they lack the agency, or maybe they feel marital duty, but our paper doesn’t provide an explanation.” (See how to prevent illness at any age.)
It’s a shortcoming in the paper that the journal itself notes: in a British Medical Journal editorial accompanying the paper, Texas A&M University professor Patricia Goodson says that while Lindau and Gavrilova’s new SALE measure might someday prove a useful tool for gauging an aging population’s medical and public-health needs as they relate to sex, it “sheds no light on the intriguing — and still poorly understood — question of why, even though they enjoy fewer years of sexually active life, many women do not perceive this as a ‘problem.’ “
Another problem the editorial doesn’t mention: the paper is based on self-reported data, and although the authors note that self-reported information about health is usually highly consistent with objective health data, reports of actual sexual activity simply cannot be objectively measured. Even so, the paper does confirm a large difference in sexual interest among older men and older women.
The reasons for the male-female sex disparity among the elderly may not be clear, but the paper shows that the problem in sex quality seems to worsen with age. Still, there is a silver lining for older women having bad or unwanted sex: men tend to die younger than women. Also, it is men’s increasing physical and health problems that are most commonly cited (by both men and women) as the reason sexual activity declines later in life.
The new paper raises more questions than it answers. When interviewed, Lindau avoids making any sweeping social commentary. Instead, she notes that as a gynecologist, she gets a lot of questions from older patients about whether their level of sexual activity is normal. “And I haven’t had the data to give these women answers,” she says. The new paper is a start.
I’ve had clients who have asked me to write their emails to prospective dates for them. I do play a very active role in the development of each client’s profile, even writing a draft of the essay, but my clients play a part too, answering a long list of questions that I draw from when writing. I give suggestions when asked on how to write a first email, occasionally even writing a draft, but I have never taken on the entire correspondence like this guy below, Matt Prager. I could do it well, just like he does. Like him, I am a psychotherapist and a good writer, but I think it is really important for us all to have a direct hand in our own futures. And I agree with Sonali Fernand, quoted in the article: If you do not reveal right up front that someone else is writing for you, then it is deceptive. What do you think?
Online dating: Cyber Cyrano for hire
John Connolly
So, it’s your first date. You’ve been emailing for a couple of weeks, and now you’ve taken the plunge and decided to meet for a drink. He’s nicely turned out and even better looking than his pictures suggested. Perhaps he’s not quite as witty as he was over the internet, but then some people are just more fluent when they can put their thoughts down in writing. Mind you, he doesn’t seem to remember all of the conversations that you had, or not in any great detail, and was that a piece of paper he was consulting at the bar as you walked in? Hey, are those notes? What kind of person brings notes on a date?
Not as witty. Doesn’t remember conversations. Needs notes. Wait a minute…
If this situation were to play itself out in a bar in Manhattan or elsewhere this very weekend, then it’s possible that either Matt Prager or, more likely, his latest client would have only himself to blame. For Prager, a clever 42-year-old therapist and former screenwriter based in New York, has a curious sideline: he is regularly engaged by men to assume their identities and find possible dates for them on internet dating sites. In essence, he pretends to be his client in the early stages of courtship and then, when the woman agrees to a date, he hands over all of the information he has collated to the man in question and lets nature take its course. In our initial conversations, I referred to him as a “Cyber Cyrano”, after the large-nosed 17th-century French dramatist and duellist Cyrano de Bergerac, who was immortalised on stage by Edmond Rostand. In Rostand’s play, Cyrano seduces the beautiful Roxane on behalf of the doomed, but more conventionally handsome Christian. But Prager took issue with this comparison, and suggested instead that he was, in fact, closer to an avatar, a cyber version of the client’s own personality.
“I’ve heard the Cyrano thing before,” Prager says, “but I’m not even that classy. I’m doing a dirty job that nobody wants to do. I think the mercy for my clients is that they’re cut out of the process entirely. They’re generally people who get a lot of emails in the course of their jobs, and tend to answer them at a brisk rhythm. The prospect of trawling through more, even for dating purposes, doesn’t appeal. I feel like the only reason I even have this work is that people view it as such a pain in the ass, and the idea of outsourcing it is appealing to them.”
Prager views part of his role as “dating coaching”: he will talk to the client to find out what his expectations are, and the kind of woman that he is seeking. “Then, at a certain point, once I get where they’re coming from, there’s no discussion. I just tell them to look at their online account, email me details of the ones that they’re interested in and we’ll take it from there. This, to me, is where it slots into my writing background. I try to take on the character of my client, but the truth of the matter is – and this holds true of most people in the online world – that they want to get to the date quickly. It’s basic, generic chatter, and then some version of ‘Do you want to get together for coffee?’ My primary job is just laundering emotion. Imagine if you contacted 20 people, crafted these emails, and not one person contacted you back. It’s so frustrating. My clients don’t have to experience that stuff, because I experience it for them.”
Prior to the first date, Prager compiles a “cheat sheet”, consisting of a picture of the woman and a summary of their correspondence – her likes and dislikes, hopes and expectations – which the client will usually be seeing for the first time, and a few suggested conversation starters, although even such apparently simple civilities can be fraught with unanticipated difficulties. “On one cheat sheet, I mentioned to the client that his date had had a cold, and I’d asked her how it was. The client said, ‘I never would have asked her how her cold is’, which kind of explains how he’s in this situation to begin with. Another client screwed up by skimming the cheat sheet but not really reading it. The date brought something up, and he couldn’t remember it. I even had to get one client a stylist, because you can’t turn up in your work suit, or jeans and an old T-shirt. You’re playing a role: the guy they want to be with.”
Here, perhaps, we come to the heart of the issue. Quite clearly, on one level Prager and his clients are practising an act of deception. While Prager’s involvement is not entirely dissimilar to that of a traditional matchmaker, in this case one of those involved in the prospective courtship is not aware of the presence of a third party.
“Look, I’m not oblivious to what you’re saying, and perhaps I lack a moral compass, but the deception seems minimal,” Prager says. “To me, there’s really only one character deception at play in terms of my clients which is: ‘I’m someone who’s too busy to manage my online dating life.’ It’s just the email. It would be different if I showed up on dates for seven months, and then, suddenly, ‘Ted’ stepped in instead. That would be bad.”
Others might beg to differ. Step forward Sonali Fernando, author of Soulmates: True Stories From The World Of Online Dating. Her view of the activities of Prager and his clients is decidedly unforgiving.
“This makes me feel queasy,” she says. “Any man who is interested in a mature adult relationship with a woman would recoil at the idea of deceiving a possible life partner. There can be no great relationship without equality, and the fact that you have hoodwinked someone into coming on a date with you implies a fundamental inequality of knowledge.
“Quite apart from the deception, guys who want to avoid the ‘online’ part of online dating are missing out on one of the great pleasures of this new form of meeting people: cybercourtship. Many couples I interviewed actually began their relationship through a thrilling kind of email tennis in which they could really experience the other person’s mind, sense of humour and values before meeting; when they met, it was simply to confirm the rapport that had developed online.
Fernando is also uncomfortable with the concept of “emotional laundry”. “People gain emotional maturity only when they learn to deal with the messy bits themselves. Rejection, pain and the realisation that we’re not going to be God’s gift to everyone we meet are essential milestones on the road to self-knowledge.”
But in addition to taking on the task of dealing with being ignored or rejected, Prager is also winnowing the field, as it were, separating the wheat from the chaff. In our consumerist society, we have been conditioned to believe that choice is an advantage, and therefore the wider our range of choices, the better. Yet it’s easy to become overwhelmed, and this is as true of potential partners as it is of flights and hotels. Excluding cohabitees, there are about 18 million single people in the UK. In 2008, the research agency Jupiter suggested that, of the 24 million first dates in that year, nearly 70% were arranged online. If there was once a stigma attached to internet dating, a sense that this was, in some way, a last resort for those who couldn’t find a date by any other means, then it seems to be disappearing fast.
Not that one would necessarily guess that from Prager’s clients. Trying to get one of them to talk about his experiences involved establishing a temporary email address for the client in question, and the creation of a false name, so it was a little like dealing with someone in the witness protection programme. Eventually, “Joe”, a 45-year-old professional, divorced for four years and with two young children, agreed to talk.
“I had had some frustrating experiences with internet dating: endless emails, few meetings, dates with disappointing women. I just was not able to find desirable women. As an older guy, some sources, like bars, are harder to exploit. My main sources for dates have been friends and women I meet, so it was important to add a key additional productive source: dating sites. Matt and I met extensively beforehand, and he now knows me very well. He prepared my profiles based on what I told him. I’m confident in him. If there is something he doesn’t know how to answer, he asks me, but in the majority of situations he saves me the trouble of repeating myself by saying what I would tend to say. But we are not the same person. We aim to progress as fast as we can to meetings or phone conversations, at which point Matt leaves the process. The women can then come to their opinion of me based on meeting me.”
Matt has certainly proved successful for Joe, who told me he’d dated more than 50 women in the last six months, a number of whom he continued to see as he had not yet settled on “the one”. His energy is admirable for a man in his mid-40s: I’m 42, and the idea of dating two women a week for six months makes me want to lie down with a cold compress.
“Matt has generated an incredible flow of women,” Joe says. “Some days and weeks I can completely fill my free time with them, if I want. Many are high quality. Matt is the best. He knows how to present me in the best way, while adhering to who I am, and makes me more confident about the dating experience. He spends countless hours working on this, hours that I don’t have. As a result, I can spend my time on the actual dates, rather than on the process.”
One doesn’t have to be a trained psychologist to pick up on some interesting use of language and concepts in Joe’s response: flow generation, “process”, “key additional productive source”, “exploit”. This is the language of business, not of feelings. For Joe, Matt appears to serve something of the same function as a personal assistant at his firm: Matt drafts the emotional missives, and Joe signs on the dotted line. It’s not deceit: it’s just the way that busy people manage their affairs.
Yet some element of deception might be viewed as part of the dating process. When I went on the first date with my partner, Jennifer, I told her that I liked vacuuming and was practically a vegetarian, neither of which was even on nodding terms with the truth, but I wanted her to like me and I wasn’t about to let my tolerance of dust or my fondness for meat get in the way of that. We all tend to be on our best behaviour in the early stages of a relationship, and try to keep the more flawed elements of our natures to ourselves.
Such concealment is made easier by the internet, which is a virtual petri dish for the successful promulgation of deceit. In this, it is aided by the absence of visual cues, since we rely so much on non-verbal signals – the giveaway movements of faces, eyes and hands that poker players refer to as “tells” – in our day-to-day interactions with others. According to one poll by the US network MSNBC, a third of people who use online dating services are already married. A survey conducted by MIT and Boston University found that 20% of online daters admitted to deception, but when asked what percentage of others they believed to be lying (possibly a more accurate way of gauging deceit), the estimate jumped to 90%.
For the most part, though, when it comes to online dating, the lies we tell are generally minor: men tend to add inches to their height while women prefer to shave pounds from their weight. Photos will generally err on the side of youth. When one of Prager’s clients confessed to his date that he had not been her email correspondent, the woman shrugged and admitted that she had a 17-year-old son that she hadn’t mentioned in her profile. Could it be that the internet has conditioned us to expect, and accept, some element of deception when it comes to how we relate to others online, or is it instead a testing ground for our own emotional honesty? After all, simply because we can deceive others doesn’t mean that we should.
“Online dating, when used honestly, provides people with a huge amount of information,” says Sonia Fernando. “This enables a very active kind of filtering from a position of safety and anonymity, so that people can weigh up the pros and cons of meeting before agreeing to go on a date.
“So, if women are evaluating a person’s writing style and things like the frequency of their emails, yet the person in the photo is not actually the one who is writing the emails, they have arrived at a judgment based on false information: the proxy dating business has basically invalidated one of their most important filters.”
Perhaps, in the end, Prager’s undoubted skills appeal more to those who view the early stages of courtship as, at worst, a burden and, at best, a means to an end, whether that end is simply a drink and dinner, or a full-blown relationship. Yet it’s hard not to feel that if one’s personal boredom threshold is so low as to make unappealing the initial process of getting to know a prospective mate online, then one’s relationship problems are greater than even Prager can solve.
Or, as he himself puts it, “I’m not your dick. If you really need my help to get laid, then you’re in more trouble than you thought…”
In my March 1 and 15th issues of *eMAIL to eMATE*, I wrote articles about singles who never got started with dating or relationships. I’ve seen a bit of interest in the subject, so I am putting the two articles together here, just in case someone comes looking.
Late bloomers is a term that describes a person whose talents or abilities are slow to develop. In this case, I am using the term for adults who missed the normal start of sexual and relationship skills.
I’ve had two different clients over the past year who have been struggling with this phenomenon. One is a woman who met a man online that she liked very much, but who seemed pretty inexperienced sexually. The other client is a man who represents the other side of the issue: despite being good looking, a professional, genuinely nice guy, he has never had sex with another person. Highly sensitive men, they seems to have “missed the boat” in relationship experience, continued to miss opportunities that came later, and have gotten so far behind that they cannot figure out how they can ever get started.
It’s been a real privilege for me to work with these two people and see, close up, the frustrations involved. And you will get the benefit of what we have been learning together. Maybe you know someone who is in a similar situation, or maybe I am describing you.
Here are the similarities: Both men are good looking, professionals with good incomes, and never married. One of the men has never had a full consensual sexual experience with another person. The other man I cannot be so sure of, because he has not been my client, but all signs point to an extreme lack of sexual experience, coupled with active avoidance of sexual situations. Another similarity: both men had close emotional relationships to their mothers.
Here is the difference—and it is a biggie: One man is my client and the other is not.
Let’s call the one who is my client Jack. The other man we will call Bob, and his girlfriend who is my client, Joyce.
Jack is highly motivated. After some struggle in the beginning on who was going to be in control, we’ve settled into a really fine working relationship. Jack scours the Internet for information about his “condition.” He reads everything that I suggest and quickly puts it into his formulation and understanding of what is going on.
Bob is not motivated at all. Bob avoids real dates with any chance of intimacy. His avoidance pushes Joyce into pursuing, which of course causes Bob to become even more remote. I think that Bob’s needs are met with Joyce – he has a diversion, Joyce is very nurturing, and he has a “sort of” girlfriend. But for Joyce, this relationship is full of frustration and pain.
Do either of these situations describe you or something you have been involved in?
These two men are in a silent and hidden group who have yet to “come out.” It is all too easy for them to stay “in the closet” because they are not DOING anything. That is what they are doing, actually: nothing. Because doing nothing is hard to detect or find fault, they stay hidden and totally misunderstood. The best that most folks are able to do as far as understanding what is going on with these men is to guess, “Well, they must be gay.” Most men would assume that, because men have a hard time understanding how a man could resist the internal sexual pressure they experience themselves.
Certainly, some men who avoid sexual relationships with women are gay, closeted or not. But this group of men appear to be quite interested in women, just way behind in sexual and relational experience. My client Jack has really helped me with my understanding of the issues these men have. Working together, we have come up with some strategies that have helped Jack get much farther in a relationship with a woman than he ever has before.
Jack has helped me a lot in my understanding of this phenomenon, and together we have designed a plan of action that is helping him bloom. I asked Jack what has been most helpful for him.
Jack says that the biggest revelation was stumbling on Brian Gilmartin’s book “Shyness and Love: Causes, Consequences, and Treatment.” The book is out of print, but has been made available online here.
Gilmartin’s book is huge – over 600 pages, and dated (published in 1987, researched in the ‘70s and ‘80s). It is also flawed and has been criticized in the professional literature. But for sure, Gilmartin’s description of this group which he called “love shy” has been extraordinarily helpful to the men who have discovered it. Jack wrote that the Gilmartin book “showed me that no I am not alone. Rare yes but not alone. I really did think I was the only guy like me on the planet. It was horrid.”
While women can also be “love shy,” Gilmartin focuses on men (which frankly is typical in mental health research), writing that while women may be afflicted, men are more seriously affected because societal expectations place men in the assertive roles romantically, which are close to impossible for this group of men. These women he theorizes can still be courted and marry, because they do not have to take the initiative.
Love shies tend to be heterosexual, highly sensitive, highly anxious, highly self-monitoring, and isolated. A high proportion of the love shy men had no sisters, and even few if any cousins. A very high proportion had abusive families. ”Even as grown men, the love-shy men’s parents expressed that they were disappointed to have them as sons and still belittled them for their current situations” (Wikipedia).
For sure, this is a hidden group, without even a descriptive label in the common understanding. I’d suggest that while the men seem largely hidden, that women would be even more so. These days, older single men (over 35) would tend to be noticed and thought to be closeted gays, whereas women without relationships could fade from sight more easily. After reading about “Late Bloomers” in my newsletter, a female reader recognized herself in the description, contacted me and we talked on the phone. Except that she was a woman, she otherwise fit the love shy description.
While Gilmartin does have treatment recommendations, most involved “practice dating” and use of sexual surrogates in an attempt to help the love shy man “catch up.” That just did not seem to be the right approach to me.
What finally made the most sense was a variation on my strategy for dealing with secrets. *eMAIL to eMATE* readers may already be familiar with this from the free download I offer to new subscribers: “Do You Have a Secret? How to Tell Your Sweetheart the Worst,” a shortened version of Chapter 13 of my book “Find a Sweetheart Soon!” I just couldn’t imagine my client Jack, an attractive and otherwise successful man in his late 40s, as being able to convincingly come across as sexually experienced, no matter how much “practice” he got. The problem, as far as I was concerned, was trying to keep his inexperience a secret.
Secrets are just plain poison. Feeling shame about something spreads rot and contaminates everything around the secret. So people avoid situations and relationships that might require telling the secret. This is the phenomenon that gay people struggled with and conquered with “coming out of the closet.” If they were open about being gay, then no one could manipulate them with the information. As well, society would be forced to acknowledge the existence of gays and confront their own prejudice. It’s only been just over 40 years since the Stonewall riots which is when the modern gay rights movement began. Look at the progress that has been made in just 40 years, the basis of which was a spontaneous decision not to hide anymore.
So Jack and I started working on a plan for him to come out – not the front page of the local paper or a billboard on the Interstate, but with potential female partners.
At first, Jack could not imagine telling a woman about his lack of sexual and relational experience. But he did agree with me that passing as sexually experienced with a woman near his own age was a near impossibility. So we started working on a “coming out story,” a way for him to explain and inform a prospective Sweetheart of his situation.
I told Jack that he be prepared to tell on date one or two, so that the woman could freely choose whether to proceed with dating him. We polished and refined his story, and then he practiced on me, at first, just telling the story over and over (our sessions are on Skype, so we can see as well as hear each other). Then in subsequent sessions, I told Jack that to interrupt me with his story as we talked about other matters. “No woman is going to give you an opening for this or be prepared for what you have to say, so you are going to have to create the space to tell,” I said.
Jack started contacting women on Match.com, met an interesting and interested woman, and on date #2 told his story. Understandably, he was very nervous, but did a good job, and presto! His date did just fine with the news. He was astounded that she could know the truth about him and still be interested.
Jack has also had some side benefits from starting a coming out process. Like gays and other sexual minorities who come out, he has felt enormous relief as he has taken the pressure off himself to evade the truth and hide. He has started to tell a few trusted friends and family members. This of course has enhanced those relationships: truth telling fosters intimacy. He now is aware of the energy it took to be closeted and how all of those years of keeping a secret contributed to the damage.
Wow. What a change, huh?
If Jack’s story sounds like you, like Jack, you can do something about it, rather than resign yourself to a life alone. Get in touch with me. I can help.
Guy meets online dating sites, finds out that it is like real life. Nothing new here, except for him. But nice to see that folks are still stumbling in to dating online.
Is online dating worth it?
by B. Poole
It started with Facebook.
About a year ago, one of my Facebook friends in California found someone flirt-worthy on Zoosk, an online dating community that was headed for 1.5 million users by the end of 2009. Being a recently single, curious, social-networking addicted guy with a penchant for technology, I checked it out.
Next thing I knew, I was ass deep in a 21st century phenomenon that has swept the nation in a massive multimedia pulse of Internet interconnectedness and flirting and love and sex – online dating.
Why not, I thought? It seemed logical.
Dating sites ask all kinds of questions to make sure everything plays out just right. They take out the hassle of meeting people. They match you up with shiny, perfect people with perfect smiles (you know, the eHarmony commercial ones) who will love you ‘til the end of time, love you for who you are, love you ‘til the sun comes up.
My MOM tried it, for Christ’s sake. You write a clever profile, post a few pictures and the woman of your dreams is only a click away. They even have online profile-writing tip sheets (FYI guys and girls – more of you should probably take advantage of this).
How do you say no to that?! You don’t. So I clicked. And clicked and clicked and clicked. Then I clicked again.
Since my friend’s Zoosk flirt (which led to my own Zoosk flirt and a very passionate, crazy-fun, memorable relationship that has evolved into what promises to be a lifelong, loving friendship), I have met about 15 people through dating sites. I have profiles on Match.com and Plenty of Fish, and I have posted and responded to a couple Craigslist personals.
Out of sheer curiosity, I posted profiles on Fling.com and XXXBlackBook.com – these are what they sound like. More about that later.
I suppose ultimately I have made online dating a personal social experiment, very personal. Naked-on-the-first-date-a-few-times personal. Came-pretty-close-to-being-in-love personal. Met-some-girls-I-will-likely-still-know-many-years-from-now personal. Online dating may seem impersonal, but it isn’t.
It’s not fake. It’s life. Real life. If you decide to make it YOUR life, you should be aware of a few things. To wit:
• Be honest. Um, if you meet someone, they will find out your pictures are 10 years old and that you don’t know the meaning of “athletic.” While league bowling might well be considered a sport, your beer gut does not constitute an athletic build. And don’t say you are adventurous if you aren’t. Eating Doritos on your couch is not adventurous, according to one woman I dated.
• Do not choose these screen names: Born Of The Horse, Just For The Ladies, I Belong to Joe; To Hot 4 U and Me, The Teach.
• Do not say this – “Well I never been on a date but I would like to go to a nice restaurant or to a club and relax and start as friends and if it clicks then we can try to build a actual relationship and if it doesnt we can be friends and email each other.”
• Do say this – “I like listening to music with a glass of wine and an occasional puff off of my man’s ‘cigar.’ ”
Which brings me back to Fling.com and xxxBlackBook.com, both of which are geared for the sexually hyperactive.
I didn’t pursue them, though they seem promising for folks who are just trying to hook up. I didn’t see the point. Frankly there has been no shortage of sex for me this past year, and the women I have dated said the same thing. There are at least as many women out there trying to get laid as there are men. I’ve met them
All in all, I have no complaints about online dating. I am not in love, but I have met some people who could very well turn out to be lifelong friends. How can you not call that worth it? I like to think of Match.com and Plenty of Fish as online “meeting.” You can’t really date online. The dating comes after that, when you get face to face. From there on out it’s just life.
Real life.
Just like on the Web sites.
Two years ago, I read Lori Gottlieb’s article “The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough” in the Atlantic Monthly and it was so good that I copied the whole business here in my blog so that I would not lose it. That article deserved full book treatment, and Lori gave it, in a new book by the same title. I’ve read it and it is GOOD. Lori tackles head on the fear of “settling” and how it has gotten women way off track. Here’s another article by Lori that summarizes some of her points.
5 Traits in a Mate That Are Not Deal Breakers, by Lori Gottlieb
The author of a provocative new book reveals why you’re wrong about Mr. Right.
By Lori Gottlieb
Editor’s Note: Lori Gottlieb, a frequent commentator for NPR, is the author of Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough, just published by Dutton. Her memoir, Stick Figure, was a national bestseller.
A couple of years ago, I wrote a magazine article called “Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough.” In it, I confessed that, having found myself still single at 40, I’d come to an eye-opening realization: Had I known when I was younger what would make me happy in a fulfilling marriage, I would have made very different choices in my dating life. It was a hyperbolic essay with a serious message: Look for the important qualities in a partner, and let go of the stuff that won’t matter five, ten or 20 years down the line.
I’ve never believed that we should stop looking for Mr. Right (we shouldn’t!) – but I do think that by changing our rigid idea of who Mr. Right is, we’re more likely to find the right Mr. Right. You can’t just order up the perfect husband á la carte – I’ll take a little of this, a little of that, less of this and more of that. A guy is a package deal, as are we. Recognizing that isn’t settling. It’s maturity. The key is to focus on the qualities that lead to long-term romantic happiness.
In my new book, I asked experts, including marital researchers, sociologists, neurobiologists, couple therapists, behavioral economists, matchmakers, clergy and even our mothers (God help us!) how to tell the difference between smart compromises (which lead to happiness) and settling (which doesn’t). The answer is complex — and different for everyone. But here are five basic things I learned I should cut a guy some slack on before I assume he’s not The One:
1. His height. Let me say upfront that I’m 5’2”. With one-inch heels. And yet I always preferred to date guys who were taller than 5’9” (and so I could kiss them while barefoot, shorter than 6’0”). But one expert explained how limiting this was: “Let’s say there’s a 50 percent chance you could be with a guy who’s 5’9”. That’s a height you like, but it could go either way depending on what else he brings to the table. There’s probably a five percent chance you could be with somebody who’s 5’4” – but there’s a chance. Maybe if you spent an hour with Danny DeVito or Robert Reich, all of a sudden you would say, “You know what? This is somebody I could actually spend my life with” – even though the height is never going to be ideal. On the other hand, take somebody who’s unkind. There’s a 100 percent chance you won’t want to be with him. So I’m saying, what are the real irreducibles as opposed to the unlikelies?”
2. His Match.com profile. A Northwestern researcher who studies online dating (yes, there are scientists who make a living doing this) told me that I shouldn’t get too specific about my search parameters in online dating because in his research, he found that “there was a lack of correlation between what people said they wanted on a questionnaire, and what they actually pick when they meet a real, live person.” Moreover, he added, don’t rule out a guy because you think you know what it means that he misspelled a word or likes Madonna. You have no idea who this person is until you meet him. An online profile, he said, “is like reading the ingredients on a box of food and trying to imagine what it would taste like.”
3. His occupation. Yes, alpha males are sexy and charming. But they aren’t always the best partners for me, especially if they travel for work all the time, need to be the center of attention and don’t have the same ideas about how to run a household that I do. As a dating coach explained to me, many women are attracted to super-ambitious and charismatic guys who are leaders — but it’s hard to find a person who has that kind of personality and also makes time for you and is able to put you first when it counts. Now Joe, the cute elementary school teacher, on the other hand … you get my point.
4. His age. The thing about being picky is you have to know what to be picky about. Apparently, I wasn’t picky enough on the things that matter (shared values, reliability, “getting each other”) and was too picky on the things that don’t (his age). While I wouldn’t want anyone to mistake my husband for my father, it’s foolish to decline a set-up with a guy just because he’s got less hair and more wrinkles than I do. This might sound beyond obvious, but many women end up dating guys with a chemistry of “9” and a compatibility of “5.” The happiest couples, though, have both a chemistry and compatibility of “7.” Would I be more naturally attracted to a guy who’s my age? Yep. Would it matter that much in the scheme of things if he was 12 years older but still handsome? Probably not. Am I going to be more wrinkled one day and thrilled to be with a man who finds me attractive anyway? You bet.
5. How he compares to “my type.” One expert told me that when she first met her husband, she had no interest in him at all. He wasn’t her type. He didn’t fit her image of the kind of guy she imagined herself with. She was Ivy League-educated, and he was a potter. At first there were no sparks. Nada. But the more time she spent with him, the more she liked him. And then the sparks flew. They’ve been married for 20 years. “In America,” she explained, “when a potter makes a pot, they put a glaze on it and put it in the kiln and know exactly what it’s supposed to look like when it comes out. But when the Japanese make a pot, they put it in a wood-fire kiln that could be any temperature, and when they take the pot out, it’s not always exactly like they thought it was supposed to look like. And they say, ‘Oh, wow, this is what the fire did to the pot and it’s gorgeous!’ They believe there’s no beauty in perfection. So instead of knowing what the person sitting across from you is supposed to be like, the question you have to ask is, ‘Do I like it?’ instead of ‘How does it compare to what I thought I wanted?’ People can surprise you.”
Indeed. I ended up falling hard for a 5’6”, balding, bow-tie-wearing guy I almost didn’t e-mail on Match.com. He wasn’t who I had in mind, but he was who I wanted to be with. And that, of course, is the thing that matters most.
Here’s another article that I came across about love shyness, like the other one, in a British newspaper. This condition is so painful for those afflicted, and goes virtually unnoticed. We really don’t even have a commonly understood word to describe it. “Love shy” was coined by author Brian Gilmartin. Love shy does not feel quite right to me, but it is the term that is “out there.” I use Late Bloomers” because at least that implies that blooming is possible.
THE HOPELESS ROMANTIC
By Gareth Rubin
Every day Charles Johnson is faced with panic attacks, depression and a phobia so crippling he often has to take powerful medication to dull it.
Charles suffers from love shyness, a form of social anxiety disorder that often leaves him shaking in the presence of women he is attracted to and prevents him from having any kind of love life.
At the age of 29, Charles is a virgin and has never had a girlfriend.
The foundations for his problems were laid subtly. “When I was 12 there was a girl in my class I formed an attachment to,” he recalls. “Then I found out she didn’t actually like me, thought I was ugly and was only interested in my best friend. It felt so heartless. That was a trigger for these feelings.”
As he got older Charles remained inexperienced. “I never clicked with any girl,” he says. “At university, women ignored me. All sorts of people have trouble forming relationships and everyone feels anxiety but this was like a phobia.”
He began to have panic attacks in the presence of girls and spent years on the drug Sertraline, which is prescribed for serious depression and social anxiety disorder.
CHARLES says: “I hated being out of control, so I would avoid most women. The drug only helped take the edge off it. After a while I mostly felt invisible when I was with a woman but my brain went into overdrive and I felt utter relief when it was over.
“Even with the drug I still had to deal with the feelings. It’s like a dog attacking you. You can’t see the dog any more but you still know it’s around somewhere.”
After leaving university he came across the diagnosis of love shyness – or LS – on the internet. The term was coined by an American academic Professor Brian Gilmartin. In his 1987 book Shyness And Love: Causes, Consequences And Treatment, he estimated that 1.5 per cent of American men were sufferers.
He said it was possible women could be love shy too but they would not suffer so much because society does not expect them to initiate romance.
There are some females among the 700 registered users of the LS internet forum where Charles found support. Some endure the same anxiety and panic attacks in romantic situations and can feel crushingly unhappy due to the lack of a close relationship but they at least avoid the social stigma which men suffer.
For many of the men the sense of social failure and emasculation is often as bad as the lack of relationship.
Professor Gilmartin believed that up to 40 per cent of love-shy men also displayed symptoms of Asperger’s syndrome, the low-level form of autism.
Charles is not Aspergic and lives in London and works in finance. “I live apart from my family so they don’t notice anything wrong. They assume, and I let them assume, that I have had relationships.”
According to Professor Chris Williams, a clinical psychologist at the University of Glasgow specialising in social anxiety, such problems cause people to avoid aspects of life the rest of us take for granted.
“It makes them feel safer but that avoidance can take over your life,” he says. “Life becomes empty and grey and people get trapped in a vicious circle. It can lead not only to panic but also to depression.”
Romantic situations are particularly stressful because they are very much based on mind reading.
“The person has to guess whether the other person finds them attractive, boring or interesting. So an anxious person might avoid any situation where there is any hint of intimacy or closeness.
“Or they might behave in different ways, by dressing in baggy clothes to hide their body and avoiding situations they might find embarrassing.”
Professor Williams treats sufferers with cognitive behavioural therapy.
“It looks at the underlying cause of the problem and encourages people to change activity levels to slowly rebuild their confidence and their life,” he says.
Lack of intimacy is painful for Charles. “I find that people who look good are treated better in social situations, whereas others aren’t extended the same help, no matter what they try.
“Some people might think it is OK to visit a sex worker but this isn’t about sex. It would be nice to have sex but in a normal way with a girl who wants to have sex with me, not to pay someone.”
T his year, American author and LS sufferer Talmer Shockley published The Love-Shy Survival Guide. In it he describes the condition in terms of a phobia.
“Love shyness starts with shyness and then requires some kind of serious ego deflation and poor self-esteem during childhood.
“Many physical or mental disabilities can induce this, including cerebral palsy, Asperger’s syndrome or even just being the shortest kid in the playground. When exposed to abuse or trauma, a typical child may become more outgoing and promiscuous but a shy child will withdraw into him or herself even more.”
Charles has good days and bad days.
“Sometimes I think about LS a lot,” he says. “I see people walking as couples and wonder when I’ll be able to do that.
“I used to be romantic but I am slowly losing that romantic edge. I carry on with my life but it’s like a sore point – a splinter in the mind.”
I learn so much from my clients, and I have been learning a lot lately about men and women who never got started sexually. I have been writing about what I have learned in *eMAIL to eMATE*. Here’s the first article I wrote in the March 1, 2010, issue.
Late Bloomers?
Late bloomers is a term that describes a person whose talents or abilities are slow to develop. In this case, I am using the term for adults who missed the normal start of sexual and relationship skills.
I’ve had two different clients over the past year who have been struggling with this phenomenon. One is a woman who met a man online that she liked very much, but who seemed pretty inexperienced sexually. The other client is a man who represents the other side of the issue: despite being good looking, a professional, genuinely nice guy, he has never had sex with another person. Highly sensitive men, they seems to have “missed the boat” in relationship experience, continued to miss opportunities that came later, and have gotten so far behind that they cannot figure out how they can ever get started.
It’s been a real privilege for me to work with these two people and see, close up, the frustrations involved. And you will get the benefit of what we have been learning together. Maybe you know someone who is in a similar situation, or maybe I am describing you.
Here are the similarities: Both men are good looking, professionals with good incomes, and never married. One of the men has never had a full consensual sexual experience with another person. The other man I cannot be so sure of, because he has not been my client, but all signs point to an extreme lack of sexual experience, coupled with active avoidance of sexual situations. Another similarity: both men had close emotional relationships to their mothers.
Here is the difference—and it is a biggie: One man is my client and the other is not.
Let’s call the one who is my client Jack. The other man we will call Bob, and his girlfriend who is my client, Joyce.
Jack is highly motivated. After some struggle in the beginning on who was going to be in control, we’ve settled into a really fine working relationship. Jack scours the Internet for information about his “condition.” He reads everything that I suggest and quickly puts it into his formulation and understanding of what is going on.
Bob is not motivated at all. Bob avoids real dates with any chance of intimacy. His avoidance pushes Joyce into pursuing, which of course causes Bob to become even more remote. I think that Bob’s needs are met with Joyce – he has a diversion, Joyce is very nurturing, and he has a “sort of” girlfriend. But for Joyce, this relationship is full of frustration and pain.
Do either of these situations describe you or something you have been involved in?
These two men are in a silent and hidden group who have yet to “come out.” It is all too easy for them to stay “in the closet” because they are not DOING anything. That is what they are doing, actually: nothing. Because doing nothing is hard to detect or find fault, they stay hidden and totally misunderstood. The best that most folks are able to do as far as understanding what is going on with these men is to guess, “Well, they must be gay.” Most men would assume that, because men have a hard time understanding how a man could resist the internal sexual pressure they experience themselves.
Certainly, some men who avoid sexual relationships with women are gay, closeted or not. But this group of men appear to be quite interested in women, just way behind in sexual and relational experience. My client Jack has really helped me with my understanding of the issues these men have. Working together, we have come up with some strategies that have helped Jack get much farther in a relationship with a woman than he ever has before. In the next issue of *eMAIL to eMATE*, I’ll write about what we have figured out that is helping Jack.
I’ve been pretty uncomfortable about all this business about older women dating younger men, a phenomenon that’s become called “Cougars.” While theoretically I am not opposed to age differences one way or the other, what I didn’t like was the predatory slant that “Cougar” implied. That aside, well why not? This article below makes some points that I had not thought of, and says that younger men are now starting to seek out older women for particular reasons. What occurred to me is for guys 35 and under, going older has a lot to be said for it. I call it the Magic 35—for men 35 and under, the competition from other men for the most attractive women is very stiff. Going older might be a very good route for these men. (I’ve underlined the parts that I liked best.)
Field Notes In Cougar Territory, Cubs Take the Lead
By MARCELLE S. FISCHLER
IN the swirl of attention around older women coupling with younger men, it seems the guys are increasingly the ones on the prowl.
Over the last year, Amber Soletti, a founder of OnSpeedDating.com, has been playing host monthly to “Cougar/Boy Toy” speed-dating events. And despite research to the contrary, it is the men, she and others say, who are clamoring for more.
“We’ve had to turn away men at every event,” she said. Ten men were on the waiting list at the most recent one.
Casey Mizzone, 31, a teacher from Hoboken, N.J., made the cut at the “Cougar/Boy Toy” night on Nov. 4 at the Watering Hole, a New York bar. He had been wait-listed the previous month. Older women, Mr. Mizzone said, “are not so nitpicky, so naggy; there’s not a lot of pressure.”
He was one of 16 men to get a chance to meet, for four minutes each, the 15 women at the OnSpeedDating.com event, which typically draws more cubs than cougars. The men were 23 to 31 years old; the women 35 to 56.
Ms. Soletti said the lure for the men is that older women are more sophisticated and, frankly, more sexually experienced.
The women “are in their sexual prime,” she said. “If they can please her, they feel like they rock in bed.”
James Insinga, 28, managing director of a Manhattan real estate firm, said he finds younger women “are about getting married immediately, having kids.” He said the older women he dates are easier to talk to and more enticing, including an “adorable” friend of his mother’s (but it “would be dicey” to tell Mom).
Barry A. Farber, a psychotherapist and the director of the clinical psychology program at Teachers College at Columbia University, said “dating an older woman may free the man from the pressures of the ‘baby hunger’ that a relationship with a younger woman might bring.” An older woman, he added, “may well take him more seriously than a woman his own age and will overlook the relatively small flaws.”
It is not, however, a new idea. In 1745, Ben Franklin in his “Old Mistresses Apologue” advised men that “in all your Amours you should prefer old Women to young ones.”
“They are so grateful!” he added, rather indelicately.
And into the 21st century, men have started Web sites to chase and give advice about dating older women, such as Urbancougar.com, where “cub chronicles,” “cougar confessions,” cougars of the month and listings of “dens” are posted.
There are more men than women among the 200 that have signed up for the first International Cougar Cruise, a three-day sail from San Diego to Ensenada, Mexico, Dec. 4 to 7.
Rich Gosse, the organizer of the cruise and the chairman of the Society of Professional Singles, based in San Rafael, Calif., said that when he started running younger men/older women parties a year ago, the focus was on “cougars wanting the younger guy.” Now the men are “more excited about this phenomenon than the cougars.”
Not too long ago, Mr. Gosse said, a 20-something male wouldn’t admit to dating a woman over 40. “Now it is a badge of honor,” he said.
At a cougar speed-dating event at R. C. Dugans, a bar and lounge in East Meadow, N.Y., last month, 8 of the 10 men attending said they would date Patricia Polenz, a 48-year-old Northport, N.Y., divorcee with five children. Her first husband was 20 years her senior.
Ms. Polenz said the younger guys were “a little refreshing.”
“They are a little more eager to know me,” she said, “they are more willing to be accommodating than men my age.”
In fact, a recent study of 4,500 British singles conducted by Parship, a British online dating service, said 20 percent of men in their 20s and 22 percent of men in their 30s would date an older woman.
For the last six months, Andreas Anastasopoulos, 27, a graphic designer from Hamilton, N.J., has been dating Erin MacCord, 41, a divorced mother of three teenagers and a nonprofit development director from Burlington, N.J. Mr. Anastasopoulos said that women his age are into “immature partying and drinking, and being stupid and irresponsible” and he is “past that.”
He thinks her children are great. “I have younger sisters that are their age,” he said.
Brandon Solomon, 28 and a real estate project manager, sat next to Ali Addesa, a 44-year-old accountant, during the East Meadow speed-dating event, which was sponsored by WeekendDating.com. He said he would be willing to date 8 of the 11 women at the event, who were nearly old enough to be his mother, and wondered if they might consider him “a trophy.”
A booth away, Fred Guarino, 34, of Middle Village, Queens, and the owner of a heating and air-conditioning company, said, à la Ben Franklin, older women tend to be more appreciative, especially those “who have been married and divorced and have seen how bad things can get.”
“Young girls today, they take everything for granted,” he said.
Sometimes I get questions from women who are dating or thinking about dating a man who is a widower. Divorced men and particularly widowers are prime candidates for remarriage, as the stats in the following article make clear. While it is ideal for the newly single men to have some time to adjust to their loss and figure out how to live single, in truth, these men may move quite quickly into a new relationship. These guys tend to like being coupled and married, and will start looking around to get that way pretty quickly. Even though they might still be a bit risky, for many women, it makes good sense to look at the recently divorced or widowed men seriously. They can be good mate material and likely will not stay single long.
Death do us part; then on to Match.com
Vicki Kennedy makes for a striking widow. Now that she’s said she won’t fill her husband’s senate seat, she has stepped firmly into the national conscience as a public figure of grief. The First Lady holds her hand at presidential conferences and liberals everywhere speak her name at prayer circles. At 55, she might some day remarry. But the odds are against it.
If things were different and Vicki passed before Teddy, chances are he’d be married this time next year. In fact, men are four times more likely to remarry after losing a spouse; 61 percent of men start dating within the first two years, compared to just 19 percent of women. It’s ironic that the same men who hem and haw about being dragged into marriage — there’s a reason women set ultimatums — are the ones who rush to find a ball and chain so soon after losing their spouse.
I’ve toured the circuit of grief groups; the women there often titter about the widowers who come to troll for dates. “They can’t do a load of laundry,” the women say, throwing their hands up in exasperation. “They don’t know how to cook for themselves.” With older widowers especially, men who served as breadwinners while their wives tended the home front, the transition to forced bachelorhood can be rocky. They’re suddenly left wondering who will fold their socks or dust the TV stand.
But, really, it’s more than the housework. My feeling is that there’s a companionship that develops in marriages, a profound understanding that’s hard to duplicate. We learn the most intimate details about someone over the course of a marriage: how they sleep with their mouth open or litter the sink with hairs after they shave. It’s these same details that grate on us over time, that drive couples to alcohol, recreational drugs and — worse — marriage counseling. But what we gain in this exchange, this soul-level knowledge of another human being, is a partner who knows us just as intimately.
Abel Keogh, who lost his wife when he was 26 years old, echoes this feeling.
“In my case, I really missed being married,” he says. “You can share your problems, your joys. You take pleasure in their life and they take pleasure in yours.” Mr. Keogh has gone on to write a book on grieving for men, “Room for Two,” and runs the online Facebook group, “Dating a Widower.” He tells men who have lost a spouse and are considering dating again to take a step back and evaluate the situation. “Make sure it’s for the right reasons,” he says, “and not just because you’re lonely.”
Which is good advice for all of us. So often we rush into relationships wanting to be known and we are quick to dismiss our partners when they fail to comprehend us fully. Instead of dashing headlong into a break-up at the first sign of discord, we would be wise to stick with some relationships for the long haul. To know someone fully — and to be known by them — takes time. For most of us, that means a lifetime.
One of my clients with a good sense of humor sent me this chart of the highs and lows in a guy’s life—unfortunately, only up til age 25. What about the next 50 years? Anyway, it is funny and worth a posting here just for the laugh.
I’m always on the lookout for suggestions that will help singles write better profiles. Here are a few from an article called “How to write a great online profile: Man edition” by Elizabeth Ann Persimmons:
Golden Rules of a Great Online Profile: Men Edition.
1. Don’t say anything about your skills in bed. Even if you think you’re doing it in a sophisticated or subtle way. The idea of you telling any of us on a public forum that you’re an “amazing lover” just skeeves us out. And saying “I’m a very giving person” with a smiley face is equally as creepy. It’s great that you like cunnilingus, not classy that you wrote it down.
2. There’s no need to specify the weight/body shape of the girl you’re looking for. You see, if you, as a man, say “No fatties,” or “Only email me if you’re dedicated to fitness,” you really just come off as a douche. Because we females, even if we aren’t fat, we think we are, regardless of our size. If you simply talk about how you go to the gym regularly, or mention that you really like to go hiking, biking and play racquetball, we’ll pick up the hint.
3. Be genuinely you. For probably three years after The da Vinci Code came out, everyone had it on their “What I read last” section. That is not original, and you probably didn’t even read the book. So tell us what you really like, and be specific. “I just came back from Ireland and my favorite movie is Dogma” is much more attractive than “I like movies and to travel.”
4. Avoid overtly advertising your potential creepiness and relationship baggage. Saying “I want to treat you like the special princess you are” or “If I like a girl, I will worship her” is just weird. And although I’m sure you don’t want another girl who is clingy, don’t use the word clingy, or stalker, emotional, crazy, moody or anything else you men used to describe not only legitamently crazy women, but also us normal women when we’re simply pissed at you for something.
5. Your online profile is not a time to list extensively the qualities you do or do not want in a lady. For example- “I’m looking for someone who’s smart, passionate, laid-back, loves dogs, looks good in heels and sweats, funny, good at math…” or “Please no obsessed girls who have kids but insist on coming over to your house anyway and if we pretend we’re not home you break in.” The former is almost always too specific for us to live up to, and the latter just shows us that you are still hung up on your last relationship….and that you have poor home security.
6. Don’t sound like an idiot with your grammar. So—spellcheck. And avoid any lols, btws, omgs and any other abbreviations you use while chatting to your friends online. Purposely spelling words incorrectly, such as “hawt,” is not cute either. Well, I take that back. It’s cute when 5 year olds do it.
7. Let’s talk about your profile picture. Your best bet is to run some pictures by female friends and ask which is best to post. But know that shirtless pictures are best avoided (yes, even if you’re at a beach, but more so if you’re standing in front of the bathroom mirror), try not to post anything that involves you at a bar surrounded by women (you may think this sends the message that you get along well with women, we just see that you validate yourself by the number of women you can cram into a picture), and the picture needs to be an accurate representation of what you look like now, not what you looked like when you played competitive sports in college.
It’s official - farmers are sexy
By Tim
To be or not to be?
That is obviously the question when it comes to revealing your identity if you’re a farming and entering the world of online dating.
New research from mysinglefriend.com reveals that more and more women want to date a farmer.
Has what you are looking for in a mate changed with your financial picture? Has the economic hard times gotten you to think about more practical mates? See this article about a British dating site for farmers that has seen an upsurge of business since the economy has tanked.
“Eighteen months ago, the city boy was much in demand - but now farmers, plumbers, sparkies and carpenters are seriously hot property,” says a spokesperson for the firm. Apparently, they’re so in demand they’re “flying off its virtual shelves”.
The change in the dating trend is, they reckon, a result of the current economic climate.
“Women want stability and to feel safer in the knowledge that their partners will not only reliably bring home the bacon, but be handy round the house too,” says Sarah Beeny, co-founder of the site.
“Since the recession began, we’ve seen a change in what women on mysinglefriend.com are looking for. Forget the previously most popular bankers and financiers, electricians, carpenters and farmers seem to be the most wanted men today. Women want men who can do.”
This paints a different picture to that suggested by a recent analysis of figures by extra-marital dating agency Illicit Encounters.
That revealed farmers seemed to be covering up their identity in order to boost their appeal to members of the opposite sex, preferring instead the term ‘self-employed’ which they believed made them sound more attractive.
If you lead a muddy-boots lifestyle and want to meet like-minded people, be it for friendship, shared interests or dating, check out FWMuddyMatches.
More from Steve about men and dating age-appropriately. See my blog entry for May 29th too.
Dating column readers reiterate: Date your age
By Steve Penner
I figured my last column would generate some interesting feedback.
In that column I advised middle-aged single and divorced men that they would be far more “marketable” to the opposite sex if they were willing to date women close to their own age.
To use a popular analogy (that I hope won’t be misinterpreted by anyone), the whole issue of older men wanting to date much younger women has been the proverbial “elephant in the room” for years. It is an issue that most people are aware of, but few people inside or outside of the media ever want to discuss honestly and frankly.
Here is some of the more interesting feedback that I received.
One local woman wrote “As a 50-year-old woman attempting to date, I truly appreciated your article in the Portsmouth Herald dated 3/13/09. I have noticed that many men my age say they want to date a woman who is closer to my daughter’s age, which I think is just icky. I cannot relate because I have no desire to date an immature, inexperienced young adult; I’m looking for someone who has been tested by life’s experiences and has come to know themselves. Thank you for telling middle age men that they should keep an open mind about age and dating because I know many fabulous women in their 50s who are emotionally stable, financially secure, intellectually stimulating, and looking for a guy their age to date.”
Another woman e-mailed “You did a very nice job with today’s column. I think the best thing about it was the way it reminded men that there are positive aspects to being open to dating women their age (or even older!), such as a larger dating pool, and finding someone with shared interests and life experiences. Thank you! I hope it generates some reflection and perhaps discussions in the coming days, and I suspect women in the Seacoast will copy the column and share it with men they know because there was no negativity or scolding… It was a great perspective on the issue.”
But the most intriguing and totally honest comment came from a man who wrote “I agree with your column completely today. It’s like everything else. There are tradeoffs. If a young woman is willing to settle for a much older man, it’s because she needs to, because she lacks something else that would enable her to snag a younger man. Maybe she is looking for financial security and that’s OK if you can afford her. We men are wired to seek young women of childbearing years who look healthy (symmetric). But do we really want more children when we are old men? I don’t! Once I started to date women my own age, a world of high quality women opened to me. Bright, charming, talented, and, yes, wealthy woman, who can pull their own weight. Now I attend parties with women who talk about their knee replacement surgery but they have so many other virtues that really count.”
Several other brief e-mails arrived from women applauding my thesis, and one man wrote to say “As someone who married an ‘older woman’...; there is a great deal of sense in your advice.”
But the question remains, are men really “wired to seek young women of childbearing years,” or are they merely conditioned by society to lust after younger women?
Obviously the answer is complex, and I would like to add another theory. Basically when it comes to important relationship and dating issues, men tend to mature much later than women. This is especially true among teenagers and young adults in their 20s and even 30s.
Therefore, starting in high school, girls prefer dating slightly older boys and vice versa. Consequently, a pattern is established (and later in life copied and perpetuated) of women wanting to date older men and men wanting to date younger women.
But by the time people reach middle age, most of us have finally achieved what I call “relationship maturity.” What do I mean by that term? Simply that people who have reached that level have finally learned what few young people know.
Simply, that the most important criteria in a relationship is NOT how tall a guy is or how cute a girl is, but rather how well a couple communicates with one another; how well a couple can mutually nurture one another; and how a couple can deal with the inevitable problems and pitfalls that life throws at everyone. These are the factors that are truly important in order to develop a meaningful relationship that one hopes will last for decades.
It is unfortunate that many people arrive at middle age still not having reached “relationship maturity.” It is even more unfortunate that a vast majority of such people happens to be men, which is why so many middle aged men are so gung-ho about wanting to date much younger women.
I further assert most such men are guys who have had limited relationship experience and who, in many ways, are as immature as they were 20 and even 30 years ago.
Show me a 50-year-old man who insists that he only wants to meet women in their 20s or 30s, and I will show you a guy whose chances of EVER developing a fulfilling long-term relationship are about as good as his chances of winning the lottery.
In other words, ladies, don’t even bother buying a ticket to meet him.
Steve Penner is my favorite dating columnist. He is so “right on” (to use a term that probably dates me) with so many dating issues. Here in this entry and my next one, you’ll see two of Steve’s columns on men’s desire to date younger women.
I’d add to Steve’s thoughts on why men (or women) would try to date someone years and years younger than themselves: They are being totally unrealistic. They are agist. They are not accepting of their own aging (no matter how “young” they feel they look and act). No one has EVER told me that they are older looking and acting than their actual age. Not since they were 13 anyway. As Gloria Steinem said. “This is what sixty looks like.” I think it has to do with folks getting “stuck” on what people looked like the last time they were dating. When they start again, they are attracted to men or women who look like the men or women they were attracted to years ago. Plus they have not REALLY looked in the mirror themselves lately.
I remember how startled I was to meet the new boyfriend of my 50ish friend to find him completely bald. And to get a sober comeuppance from her, too, when we were together at a conference in Boston: It was snowy and icy and several times, handsome college guys helped us across the streets. I loved the attention, but she simmered me down with “Don’t flatter yourself. We are old enough to be their mothers.” Wham.
Go out and look around and find people your own age. See what they look like. That’s what you look like too. That’s your market. Get used to it.
The simplest way to raise your dating quotient The Truth About Dating
By Steve Penner
“How can I make myself more marketable to single women?” (Translation for regular readers of this column: “How can I raise my Dating Quotient?”) That is a question (in one form or another) I am often asked by single or divorced men. Obviously, for many men the answer is quite complex.
But for men over 45 or so, there is one shortcut that will immediately and dramatically increase their DQ. So I am writing this column specifically for them. (If you are a woman, make a copy and send it to every single, divorced, or widowed man over 45 that you know.) OK guys, you don’t have to get a hair transplant, dye your goatee, develop abs of steel, or even insert lifts in your shoes. Nor do you have to develop a sparkling personality. (Just don’t come across as a totally self-centered jerk.) All you have to do is be yourself (unless you are a totally self-centered jerk) and do one teeny, tiny thing.
Just open yourself up to meeting women close to your own age. And if you really want to raise your DQ, be willing to date women a few years older than yourself!
I know, many of you would prefer meeting much younger women. After all, in every movie, television show, and commercial you see, the men are always considerably older than their wives and girlfriends. But those shows and movies are produced primarily by wealthy Hollywood moguls whose power, fame, and most of all, their pocketbook, are the prime reasons they attract much younger trophy wives.
The fact is that today’s 50-year-old single woman is not “your father’s 50-year-old woman.” To use another worn out expression “50 is the new 35.” Have you guys noticed what many 50-year-old women look like these days?
Improved diet and fitness workouts have kept them in much better shape than women of a similar age from previous generations. Many if not most of these women also have careers, which further motivate them to lead a healthy lifestyle and to look good in the work place.
Unfortunately though, when filling out your profiles at online or personal dating services, so many of you guys foolishly list a “strong preference” for meeting women 10-20 years younger than yourselves. Then you wonder why you have little success.
Moreover, if you are a 50-year-old man who wants to meet a woman 25-39, please keep in mind that not too many 25-39 year-old women will say they want to meet you! Also please understand that by doing so, you are placing yourself in direct competition with much younger men.
To be honest, I realize that so much of what I have written sounds silly, even to me. Age is only a number, and I don’t want to hear excuses like “I am such a youthful 50, I can’t imagine going out with a woman my own age.” Interestingly, I hear those exact same claims from women.
Everyone these days looks, acts, and feels young for their age, but that is because we are comparing ourselves to our parents’ generation. That was a generation that, for the most part, was unaware of (or ignored) the health risks and appearance consequences associated with cigarette smoking and excessive sun worship (both of which produce premature signs of aging). Moreover, fitness clubs were few and far between, as were home gyms. Let’s face it, except for golf and bowling, most of our parents lived a sedentary lifestyle, while puffing away on their Kents, Lucky Strikes or Winstons. And of course active women were encouraged to smoke Virginia Slims.
Today, I implore single middle-aged men to try the following. The next time you complete a dating service profile, list a desired age range that is plus or minus five years of your own. That’s right, state that you are willing to meet women who are (gasp) older than you. Come on; give it a shot. You might be surprised at the quality (and quantity) of the pool of women who will suddenly become available to you.
But then be very strict about every other criterion. If you work out almost daily, state you only want to meet women who do the same. If you ski every weekend in the winter or you are an avid hiker, golfer or tennis player, state that you only want to meet women who are avid outdoors enthusiasts. If you are a Fred Astaire on the dance floor, state very clearly that you must meet a Ginger Rogers. If being youthful to you means that you are open-minded, liberal and love to “rock ‘n’ roll,” then just say you only want to meet women who at least have heard of Woodstock.
I recently received an e-mail from a woman who wrote “I ...; wonder if you could address a topic of dating discrimination that is so obvious and widespread that it affects most of the women I know, yet hasn’t made it into your column nearly as much as your pet peeve of women who shun short men. The discrimination I would like you to discuss is men who refuse to date women their own age.” She went on to say “So, please, I’d love to see this issue in a column of yours. Being shunned for age is as unfair as being shunned for height, both of which are factors beyond one’s control.” I couldn’t agree with her more. Besides guys, if you really are into rock ‘n’ roll, why would you want to meet a much younger woman who thinks The Who is just a strangely worded pronoun?
One of the questions I get most frequently (right after “Why didn’t he/she answer my email?”) is “Why did he just disappear?” The “he” is purposeful, because I practically never hear that women “just disappear,” though the men seem to on a regular basis.
The disappearance usually happens in what has up until then been a pleasant email exchange, or after the first date, or somewhere in the dating process. It’s a frustrating and painful experience for the receiver of this non-behavior (dropping out of contact), and “Why?” is the natural question.
Well, first off, you probably will never really know why, because part of the nature of online dating is that you don’t know this other person and probably will never run into them in real life so that you can ask. And if they refuse to reconnect via email, phone or otherwise, you are left with your “Why? What happened???” And the natural next question is “What did I do wrong?”
Most likely, you did nothing wrong. Or nothing so grievous to deserve a silent cutoff.
Here are possible explanations:
1. He got hit by a bus. His computer died right after he sent you the last email. He lost your phone number. He has been abducted by aliens. Or worse.
Unlikely, but possible.
2. He decided he is not interested in pursuing contact and is too rude or unskilled or scared to tell you directly. Email and anonymity make silence a perfect solution.
More likely and quite possible. Don’t let “I was too busy with work” excuse this kind of behavior. It takes practically no time at all to zip off an email or speed dial your cell phone.
3. He got scared. Yeah, scared. Grown ups get scared about developing relationships, even when they are lonely and want one. At each point that a budding relationship takes a baby step towards more closeness (like moving towards a first meeting, deciding on date #2, going public by meeting family and friends), fear can get stirred up and bad behavior result.
Most likely, and usually the reason behind deciding not to pursue contact, too.
Now, both men and women have fears about getting closer, but men seem most prone to silence and the disappearing act. Here’s why:
1. Disappearing is easy. You just do nothing, and probably you will never get directly confronted.
2. You don’t have to give bad news and face the upset of the other person – ie crying.
3. You also don’t have to confront yourself about the implications of your callous behavior.
Guys, correct me if I am wrong about this, and/or tell my about your experiences with disappearing ladies. I’m willing to learn!
Anyway, I had exactly this kind of issue come up with one of my clients recently. Lisa is a lovely lady, just over 60, very pretty and looks much younger. She had been emailing nicely with a gentleman named George and they were starting to plan their first meeting. Then…nothing. This was not the first time this had happened to Lisa, and she was dumbfounded about what was going on. Why would someone just “drop out of sight”?
I explained the “Hit by a bus, he’s decided ‘no, thanks,’ or he’s scared.” Lisa was incredulous. “Why would he be scared? I’ve done nothing to scare him.” Of course, we couldn’t know precisely, but getting closer risks potential loss, maybe being “found out” as not being as presented, old pains getting reactivated.
Here’s what Lisa (who as she says, has a hard time giving up) did – and this was all on her own, without my prompting – she emailed George the following:
George,
Is this the point when someone gets scared .. and thinks
(Multiple Choice)
a- she may be the size of a tent and not look like her pictures at all
b- she may want to get me drunk and take advantage of me
c- she might expect me to give up my freedom and see her
constantly and never have a free moment again (even though
she lives 3 hrs away)
d- she may throw away my remote control
e- she may be the mean step-mother type
f- what if she has a social disease
g-what if she is after my money
h- maybe she shops til she drops and brings in bills instead
of money
i- Other
George’s email reply:
I guess I must plead guilty to not getting back to you…I work a lot….sometimes too much….and I tend to slip away from things that are out of my comfort zone…like “dating”..LOL!
I have come close to the number of “dates” where one questions his choices or his dating skills..I think I am bad at both.
NO….I’m not afraid if you don’t look like your photos….I’m used to it…
it would be nice to find someone who is MORE interested in What you are about..more than what you have in life.
I’m a little burned out and dissapointed in people ,“our” group…who just Don’t get it.
So take my remote..there’s nothing on that I haven’t seen before.
LOL!!
Stay warm
George
Bingo. I was right. George was scared. Even this note showed it – though he had the guts to write back (Lisa had done a fabulous job with her light, humorous, yet to-the-point email), George did not clearly indicate a “yes” or “no” to further contact. So Lisa hits the keyboard again:
George,
Thanks so much for the great and honest answer and for not taking the easy way
out by fading into the woodwork and disappearing.
This means you have character. :-) big points
I have experienced the dating disappointments and the people who
just “don’t get it”. I have questioned what this dating thing is all
about and how people can be so “reckless” when we are all putting
our heart and ego out there. But, I’m not good at giving up and
I hope you aren’t either. Plus, you have the sense of humor to
keep this in perspective.
What can I do to make you feel more comfortable? First, I do
come with references. LOL and I promise not to steal the remote.
I won’t even ask where you live nor become a stalker. LOL
Second, you pick the place and timeframe
that makes it easy… 10 min at the local 7/11??
enough time to eat a great burger?? one drink and one
dance at the local casual bar (lesson free) Timer and batteries
included.
Besides, if you didn’t meet me, wouldn’t you wonder? Did I miss
meeting somebody who DOES get it? and is as nice as she says
she is? How can someone who adores a true Irish twinkle be so
bad? Wow, and she knows how to dance (even lead if necessary)?
Lisa
Isn’t Lisa something? She is handling this situation PERFECTLY, and subsequent emails indicate that George is gingerly taking his fear in hand. They are talking about meeting again.
Here’s the lesson:
Singles pursuing love get scared easily. Expect that fear will crop up, especially when the budding relationship gets ready to take a step forward.
Acknowledge fear (maybe expressed through silence), treat it gently and with humor. You don’t want to stir up still more fear.
Be persistent, though do not become a stalker. If someone tells you a clear “No,” then respect it.
My client Leslie has been working her way through my book “Find a Sweetheart Soon! Your Love Trip Planner for Women” and also my ecourse “Ten Days to Get Lucky at Love.” She’s a great student and taking to it all like “a fish to water.” After President Obama’s Inauguration, she emailed me the following – I liked her views so much that I asked if I could preprint it here so you could enjoy it too:
On page 16 of “Get Lucky at Love,” you write:
“BTW, women find men who can dance VERY attractive. And a man willing to get out on the dance floor, despite not being perfect, can ask any woman there to dance. And she will probably say ‘Yes.’”
Analytical student-type that I am, I’m looking everywhere for Love Luck and Bright Spots, and I found one in the coverage of the inaugural festivities. What I saw really proves what you say about guys learning to dance—or even trying to dance. Just a few weeks ago, I wouldn’t have seen this myself, so thanks a lot for that, too!
Everyone—absolutely everyone—is talking about the new President and First Lady and their first dance. The recap on ABC opened and closed with footage from it. They do look terrific; I think it’s the first time I’ve thought any of our American presidents actually looked romantic. But here’s the thing. President Obama isn’t doing anything all that complicated. People are saying that they “glided” through a “slow, dignified two-step,” but it’s the same left-LEFT, right-RIGHT, three-two-one-spinnn that I remember from high school.
So lesson A: You do not have to know how to move like a professional to look awfully good. You just have to look comfortable and into your partner. People will think you’re attractive even if you’re the President.
Fewer people are talking about the new Vice President’s first dance, but he’s happy to say why. He says he can’t dance. He’ll tell anyone who will stand still long enough to listen. He freely admits stalling so that he won’t have to dance as long. But here’s the thing. The new VP DID dance in front of the assembled company, even if he didn’t think he was good at it. And for double bonus points, he said he might not care much for dancing but he loved being close to his wife.
So lesson B: Willingness will get you almost as far as ability. In some cases, it will get you even farther.
Now, there were doubtless tons of guys at the inaugural balls who couldn’t dance, told their dates they couldn’t dance and then punished themselves and their dates by refusing to dance. I can’t say for sure because no one at all is talking about them.
Which leads us to lesson C: You only lose if you don’t play.
Dance-shy people take notice!
Talk to you Friday,
Leslie
Most of the scamming stories I read are about women being scammed. But here is an interesting article that focuses on men being scammed.
From How to spot a fake profile online?
How does this scam work?
Fake profile scam is very common because it is easy to do. You need several minutes to create a profile with an anonymous email address, a fake picture, and bogus information. Some people do it as a joke, others – to entice you to part with your money. The result is always the same: the trusting victim gets nothing.
Typically, fake entries are targeted at males. There are some fake male profiles to entice females to part with their money, but they are not popular. Males are more willing to pay for subscriptions or additional services than females, so they are a more attractive and profitable target for online scammers.
The typical fake profile scam works this way. A fraudster creates a profile or personal ad posing as a pretty young woman looking for a date. When he gets a response, he (or an auto-responder) sends a link to sign up for a dating site or adult site so that you can see profile or photos of this imaginary young woman. The subscription will cost you $5-$30 per month.
Some scammers create fake profiles of pretty girls in chat rooms. They are waiting for guys to start a private instant messaging. After a short talk, the pretty girl will tell you that she has a webcam and ask whether you want to see her naked online. She will tell you to sign up at a webcam site to make sure that she is not doing a show for an underage boy. Once you do it, the pretty girl will never communicate with you again.
Some online scammers send links to websites where you can get viruses and Trojan programs. Or your Internet love can ask you to send her money because she has got in a difficult life situation. New types of online scam appear faster than articles about them.
The main reason why scammers create fake profiles is money. They are paid for this work. For every person scammers get to sign up for a free membership they can receive $5-$15 dollars. Paid membership is worth more because it requires more time and efforts.
Some people creating fake identities are not scammers. They can want to advertise their own online resources and draw free traffic. So they add a lot of friends in social networking websites or blogs and post messages and comments with links to their site. In this case you won’t lose money, but you will waste time on such virtual persons. They are not interested in your desires or thoughts; they just want to promote their site.
Some people make fake entries because they don’t want to reveal who they are. For example, they have a committed relationship and simply bored. But they won’t tell it in their ads – who will respond to it? So they pretend to be a single young man or woman looking for a life-long partner. This type of fraud can make you feel hurt and disappointed in people.
How to avoid a fake profile scam?
Some people think that fake profile scam occurs on large websites that don’t invest money in technology or employ people to review all profiles before posting them. However, it is not so. As we have already mentioned, the number of fake identities is significant. The loss of these profiles means the loss of many members. Imagine that a large number of good-looking attractive women will disappear from you favorite dating site! It will make this service less attractive for you and for other users, right?
It is a well-known fact that some small dating sites create fake profiles to show that they have a large member database and get people use their service. Do you want to see proof of it? Just visit any popular freelance site and browse jobs they offer!
As you see, some large and small website owners can be interested in fake profiles. That’s why it makes sense to keep in mind some simple rules to avoid dealing with bogus people. In some cases a fake profile is easy to spot. In other cases, you can spend several days to find out that your partner is just a spammer.
• The photo is obviously the first thing to analyze. You should be suspicious of profiles featuring photos of professional models.
• If the email and photo are too good to be true, then they are likely to be a fake.
• If you ask for the phone number of your partner, and he/she does not reply to your calls, it’s not a good sign.
• Be careful if your partner speaks more about yourself than asking questions about you, or doesn’t answer your questions. It happens because scammers write e-mails to many people simultaneously.
• Due to the same reason, scammers can forget about specific personal things. For example, they can ask about your hobby several times.
• If the emails you receive are very impersonal and neutral, it can indicate that you are possibly one of many people scammers are talking to. The e-mails are used for both men and women.
• If your partner writes that he/she likes your attractive photo and interesting description, but you don’t have any photo or self description online, it’s very suspicious.
• Scammers don’t ask you about your life, work, friends, or family. They prefer to communicate in general words: How are you today? How was your weekend?
• If a member profile is long and detailed, then you can be pretty sure that it is a real person. Scammers don’t have time to create long interesting profiles.
We do not want to say that most member profiles are a fake and you will lose time looking for your match online. There are many people who met their spouses on the Internet. So if you like that man or woman on a dating site or elsewhere online, take a chance! But don’t reveal all information about yourself in the first e-mails.
If you receive a link in the response, don’t sign up for any sites or click suspicious links. You can lose money or install malicious software. Use your common sense and intuition to spot fake identities!
It’s not very often that women have a chance to get the real story from real guys about what is going on in their minds and lives in reference to women. Six Boston men recently sat down and talked. The women though had to be cautioned to be nice… See below the coverage in the Boston Herald, I underlined what I thought was particularly interesting.
‘Man Panel’ lets ladies grill guys about sex, dating and relationships
By Lauren Carter
Ladies who dream of putting men on the spot finally have a place to do just that.
“The Man Panel,” a monthly series started by Boston writer Laura Warrell, rounds up six men of various ages and relationship statuses and lets an audience full of women bombard them with questions.
Friday’s session, “The Sex: Let’s Talk About It,” promises to be X-rated. In terms of conversation, anyway.
But January’s theme was a bit tamer: online dating. Panelists included regular Joes (and Marcs and Toms) of the single and taken variety, as well as Sam Yagan, CEO of megadating Web site OKCupid.com.
Ladies of various ages feeling the pre-Valentine’s Day pressure rounded up their posses and came out to the United South End Settlements building to learn how to snag a dude in cyberspace.
For a $10 fee they got snacks, drinks, pre-panel old-school jams, a chance to win some choice giveaways and, of course, answers to their burning questions.
Apparently women aren’t the only ones in need of a little online love guidance. A healthy number of men turned out, including lifestyle dating coach Thomas Edwards, 23, of Boston. Edwards jumped in the online dating waters a few months ago for practical reasons.
“You get to meet people you wouldn’t normally meet on a regular basis, so it kind of improves your chances,” he said.
Before asking the panel some prepared questions, then opening the floor to the audience, Warrell put the crowd on notice: These panelists are not your boyfriends and they’re not representatives of the male species, so be nice.
The men talked of doing “crush research,” (also known as online stalking,) on their potential dates. One panelist, an engineer, revealed that he creates a spreadsheet giving his dates grades of As, Bs and Cs.
Then it was onto the Do’s and Don’ts of creating a profile: Don’t make your profile too short or too long. Avoid the disclaimer “I’m only trying this because my friends told me to.” Forget cliches such as “I love long walks on the beach.”
Other tips: Honesty is key, and so are recent pictures that don’t involve you being visibly intoxicated or hanging on the arm of some mystery man. Nix the pics of the sunset (without you in the picture) and don’t post the one of you in your bikini.
Remember to stay positive - you don’t want to seem like a downer with issues. Do provide hooks or nuggets of unique information that someone can easily respond to. Do provide a body shot, but not a weird angle (mirror pics, anyone?).
Yes, ladies, guys will Google you, and no, you shouldn’t lie about your age.
“If you’re going to put yourself out there in a certain way, be prepared to back it up in person,” said Jesse, 33, a single guy from Boston who works in sales and marketing.
There were no definitive answers, only opinions, humor and Heinekens. The feel was informal and friendly, but a little too short and structured to offer true insight. Many questions from the audience weren’t so much questions as long-winded recaps of a lifetime of online dating drama. With a few more hours of free-flowing conversation and beer, however, some of the mysteries of the universe may very well have been solved.
And now Patti gives it to the guys. Go Patti!
Dating Tips From Patti Novak From Online Dating Magazine’s Online Dating Newsletter February 24, 2009
Here are some of Patti Novak’s dating tips for men:
> Make an effort to clean yourself up—it shows that you care about the date. Be sure to shave that day. Don’t wear wrinkled clothes with sneakers.
> When you’re on the date, be attentive, ask questions and really listen. And don’t forget to make eye contact. Eye contact and a nice smile can steal a woman’s heart.
> If you’re going out to dinner, brush up on your table manners. If you hold the fork like a toothbrush, please ask someone to show you the right way.
> If you want to go out with a woman on the weekend, don’t call her on Friday—I find a lot of guys make this mistake. In the first three months, she may not be dating exclusively so don’t assume she’s sitting back and waiting for you to call.
> No matter how excited you are, don’t send flowers after only a couple of dates. It makes women nervous if you come on too strong. Wait until you’re at least a few months in.
Patti Novak is the popular matchmaker from Buffalo, New York and author of the book GET OVER YOURSELF.
Steve Penner does such a good job with his columns. Here’s another—boring guys unite!
Was he really such a boring first date?
By Steve Penner
February 27, 2009 6:00 AM
One of the most common first date complaints I heard from women in the 23 years I ran a dating service was that the guy was “nice and very polite.”
But he also was “a bit boring, not outgoing enough,” and consequently there appeared to be no real “spark.” As a result, many of these women turned down a request for a second date.
Then they would call their counselor and ask to meet someone more talkative, lively and fun. Sometimes, such actions were huge mistakes.
As I have written before, unless a person finds someone repulsive, or he (or she) does something truly offensive or obnoxious, I almost always recommend a second date. (To use a golf term, everyone deserves a “mulligan.”)
Nerves can make anyone seem a bit dull or stiff on a first date ... especially never married professional men who may lack experience on meetings arranged through a dating service. Of course nerves may also affect recently divorced or widowed men, many of whom are dipping their toes into the dating pool for the first time in literally decades.
Moreover, men overall are less social than women. Women are quite used to chatting with friends over coffee or a casual drink; men rarely sit down for a casual drink or conversation with other men, unless they are watching a game or conducting business. This is one reason why guys tend to drink more than women, to loosen themselves up.
In fact men who come across too outgoing, funny, or boisterous on a first date may be putting on an act, an act practiced before a mirror or on scores of prior dates. Some of these charmers are just “players,” playing a game to see how many women they can get into bed ... or they may be drunk or even high. I know guys who always had a couple of drinks BEFORE meeting a date. I also know guys who always smoked a joint before a first date.
After all, another common complaint I heard from women at LunchDates was “he was so much fun on our first date; we had such a great time. We went out a few times, and then he stopped calling. I don’t know what happened.”
Ladies, you were “played.”
If you are looking for a man whom you would hope to eventually marry and have him be the father of your children, think how you would like “future dad” to act on a first date. Would you really prefer that he come across like a manic Robin Williams or a more subdued Harrison Ford?
Even though at LunchDates I was involved in arranging several hundred thousand dates in restaurants, I recognize that sitting across the table from someone on a first date can be a stressful experience for anyone. Also (and this is a fact that few women realize), if a guy does not talk much, it may be simply that he finds himself very attracted to his date, and therefore becomes even more nervous and stressed.
This is even true of many men who are outgoing in their career personas. I recall interviewing one man at LunchDates who was a prominent Boston lawyer. He explained that he had no trouble standing before a jury and delivering eloquent orations. BUT on a first date with an attractive woman, he would often revert to being a nervous teenager. The opposite is also true. Some guys, who are NOT physically attracted to their date, may become even chattier, because they feel no pressure to impress the woman.
The fact is that many men of all ages are not that evolved from the 10-year-old boy who pulls the pigtails of a girl on whom he has a crush. That is, many guys are just clueless about the opposite sex.
Moreover, our technological age has created many men (and women) who have not experienced a great deal of social interaction in their careers. Sitting in an office cubicle and working in front of a computer does not lead to the development of tremendous social skills. And such recent technological developments as faxing, e-mails, instant messaging, texting and twittering tend to blunt people’s conversational development even more.
Not too long ago teenagers spent hours yakking to friends over the phone while honing their verbal skills (at least with their friends, if not their parents). Today though, things have changed. Teens and young adults now do much of their socializing online. Even their cell phones are used more for texting than for actually talking to one another. It will be interesting to monitor what will occur when this younger generation starts dating as adults. I can almost picture a man and a woman sitting at a table in an elegant restaurant a decade from now, sending text messages back and forth.
But back to those women who think their first dates lack the outgoing wit and charm they would prefer. As I said, I suggest they give the man another chance. And I strongly recommend that instead of a second date taking place in a restaurant, they should plan on carrying out a FUN activity together, such as hiking, biking, or even bowling. Then, if on this fun date they don’t have any fun, well, don’t bother with a third date.
Because maybe the poor guy really is boring.
I just love this—you’ve got to click through and see the photo. I wonder who has nibbled…
Australian Robinson Crusoe advertises online for Girl Friday
Sophie Tedmanson
Robinson.psd
If you don’t mind the quiet life, snuggling up to a man with straggling hair and a big, bushy beard, and surviving without a regular hot bath, then Australia’s answer to Robinson Crusoe may just be the man for you.
David Glasheen, 65, a former businessman from Sydney, has advertised online for his very own Girl Friday to share his life on a remote island in the far north of Australia.
The self-confessed Robinson Crusoe is looking for love on a dating website after spending 12 years on his own in the wilderness.
“One of the last true adventurers! Still looking for my mermaid,” Mr Glasheen says on his profile on the internet dating site rsvp.com.au, accompanied by a beaming photograph of the bearded and tanned island dweller.
Mr Glasheen, who shares his remote hideaway with his pet dog Quasi, said he left his high-flying inner-city life to lead a Robinson Crusoe-like existence “on my very own tropical island”.
“I’m seeking a Girl Friday to make my island dreams come true!” he said.
“I need a woman with an adventurous spirit, a warm heart and an open mind. The type of woman I am seeking must be the kind who finds more joy in the beauty of nature, than in shopping malls or fashion. One who appreciates the serenity of living amidst nature, and who can put up with the peculiarities of life on a remote (yet accessible) island.”
Mr Glasheen lives on Restoration Island, off Cape York in the far north of Queensland in Australia’s remote Top End. He owns a 50-year lease on one third of the island, the remainder of which is national park.
Restoration Island, described by Mr Glasheen as “a tiny green oasis floating in the desert of the sea” lies 1200 miles north of Brisbane and sits adjacent to the Great Barrier Reef. The coral island only accessible by boat.
Mr Glasheen, a divorced father of three, told Sydney’s Sunday Telegraph newspaper he left his life as a high-flying executive after losing $10 million in the 1987 stock market crash.
He paid for his lease with the last of his money and in 1993 moved to Restoration Island with his girlfriend and young son. But with no hot water she soon grew tired of the remote existence and took their son back to civilisation.
Mr Glasheen told the paper he loves his island life and now wants to share it with his own lucky lady.
“There has to be someone out there for me,” he told the paper.
“I’ve got an eye for the ladies, so I guess I would do anything to meet the right partner”.
He said while he has added a few modern amenities to his private hideaway, the standard of living is still pretty basic – but that doesn’t mean he skimps on certain luxuries.
“We have style in the wild here,” he said. “We don’t live like yahoos or hillbillies – we have plenty of champagne when we need it.”
For all the guys who worry that women only want white collar professionals, maybe they should try cruising Australian ladies:
Love those tools ....
“Tradies” have it in spades - new poll shows Aussie women want their men back
Single women have declared the trend for dating metrosexuals is well and truly a thing of the past. The down to earth, cheeky Aussie bloke is want woman really want, according to a survey which found that single women are much more interested in dating tradesmen than men in suits.
The survey of over 700 female members of RSVP.com.au, Australia’s largest online dating site, saw 93 per cent of respondents saying they would like to date a “tradie”. Almost half the women surveyed (49 per cent) believe tradesmen are “more relaxed and fun than men in stuffy suits”.
RSVP’s Customer Support Director, Lija Jarvis said that this was a clear indication that the time of the ‘metrosexual’ was over. “Australian women are wanting real men – guys with a sense of humour, an outdoorsy attitude and a man who is prouder of his tools, not his tie collection. Women are over sharing their hair products, moisturisers and mirror time. Clearly, it’s more sexy to know how to fix a tap or change a tyre.”
According to single women, the appeal of a tradie lies predominately in sex appeal, “sexy and strong” was the most popular reason (28 per cent), followed by “not afraid to get their hands dirty” (20 per cent) as well as “handy around the house and garden” (15 per cent).
When asked which of the trades they thought was the sexist, builders came out on top (47 per cent) followed by chippies (21 per cent).
If you’ve ever wondered what’s the motivation for foreign women who look for American men—or foreign men who look for American women—take a look at this article below.
Vietnam women marry foreigners to escape poverty They may not get rich, but they can help their parents get out of debt.
From the Associated Press
TAN LOC ISLAND, VIETNAM — Nearly 70 young Vietnamese women swept past in groups of five, twirling and posing like fashion models, all competing for the hand of a Taiwanese man who had paid a matchmaking service about $6,000 for the privilege of marrying one of them.
Sporting jeans and a black T-shirt, 20-year-old Le Thi Ngoc Quyen paraded in front of the stranger, hoping that he would select her.
“I felt very nervous,” she recalled recently as she described the scene. “But he chose me, and I agreed to marry him right away.”
Like many women from the Mekong Delta island of Tan Loc, Quyen had concluded that finding a foreign husband was her best route out of poverty. Six years later, she has a beautiful daughter and no regrets, she says.
From the delta in Vietnam’s south to small rural towns in the north, a growing number of young women are marrying foreigners, mostly from Taiwan and South Korea. They seek material comfort and, most important, a way to save their parents from destitution in old age, which many Vietnamese consider their greatest duty.
Quyen has not gotten rich—her husband earns a modest living as a construction worker—but the couple have paid off her father’s debts.
Young women have become Tan Loc’s most lucrative export. About 1,500 village women from the island of 33,000 people have married foreigners in the last decade, leading some to call it Taiwan Island.
Women in Tan Loc and other delta towns began marrying foreigners in the 1990s, when Vietnam opened up economically and many Taiwanese and South Korean companies set up operations in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam’s southern business hub.
Poverty and the proximity of foreign businessmen seem to be major reasons for the trend. The biggest complaints come from women’s groups, who consider it demeaning, and from young village men for whom the pool of potential brides is shrinking.
With money from foreign sons-in-law, many residents in Tan Loc have replaced their thatch-roof shacks with brick homes. They also have opened small restaurants and shops, creating jobs in a place where people have traditionally earned pennies a day picking rice and other crops in the blistering sun.
The luckier families received enough to build ponds for fish farming.
Western Union has opened a branch to handle the money sent by newlyweds.
“At least 20% of the families on the island have been lifted out of poverty,” said Phan An, a professor who has done extensive research in Tan Loc. “There has been a significant economic impact.”
Not all the marriages work out.
Dam Psi Kin Sa went to Taiwan nine years ago at age 20 and married a thrice-divorced carwash owner more than twice her age. She met him through a matchmaking service.
Five years later, her husband demanded a divorce and locked her out of the house. Even though she had learned his language, Mandarin, the couple had trouble communicating. “We were angry at each other in a quiet way,” she said in Taipei, where she has remained to be close to her daughter.
Last year, one Vietnamese bride was beaten to death by her South Korean husband, another jumped out a 14th-story window, and a third hanged herself on Valentine’s Day, leaving behind a diary full of misery.
“A marriage that is not based on love often brings problems,” said Hoang Thi Thanh Ha of the Vietnam Women’s Union. “How can you live happily ever after when you met your husband three weeks before the wedding?”
Nevertheless, most young women in Tan Loc seem eager to marry a foreigner. Le Thanh Lang recently went to the town hall to get papers confirming that she is single and eligible to marry.
“Any country will do; I’ll take anyone who will accept me,” she said, waving the papers. “I need to send money to my parents.”
Besides the marriage broker’s fee, the groom gives about $300 to his bride’s family, Lang said. After that, if all goes well, her husband may send as much as several thousand dollars a year to her family.
Many Tan Loc families with married daughters abroad have big homes with color TVs, new furniture and karaoke machines.
Their neighbors live in huts.
Tran Thi Sach’s concrete home, with four large rooms and shiny green tile floors, is a mansion by island standards.
“Since my daughters got married, I’ve retired,” said Sach, 59, who used to toil in the rice fields with her husband.
“We lived in a shack,” she said. “We had to work no matter how hot it was, no matter how much it rained, from 5 in the morning until 5 in the afternoon. Sometimes we could only afford rice porridge.”
When her daughter Tho first said she planned to go to a marriage broker, Sach objected. What if her in-laws abused her? Where would she turn for help?
Tho married six years ago and her younger sister, Loi, two years later.
“Their husbands are gentle, handsome and hardworking,” Sach said. “They are really fine men.”
Next door, Nguyen Thi Chin lives in a two-room shack with a roof so leaky that when it rains she must move from spot to spot to avoid getting wet. Each of her seven children married a Vietnamese, all of them poor. At 70, she is still working, pulling mussels from the muck in the Mekong River.
“I could never have a house like that,” Chin said, glancing next door. “It’s my destiny to be poor. If I had another daughter, I’d ask her to marry a foreigner.”
More than 100,000 Vietnamese women have married Taiwanese men over the last 10 years and the numbers are rising, said Gow Wei Chiou of Taiwan’s representative office in Hanoi. In the same period, about 28,000 South Korean men married Vietnamese, according to the Vietnam Women’s Union.
As more Taiwanese and South Korean women move to cities to work, many men in those countries, especially those from rural areas, face increasing difficulty finding wives, Chiou said.
“Taiwanese women want to get married when they are much older, and they are also very opinionated,” said Lin Wen-jui, 39, who met his Vietnamese wife through a Taiwanese friend in Ho Chi Minh City. She has since taken a Taiwanese name, learned Mandarin and opened a restaurant.
The overseas marriage trend has been boosted by online matchmaking services such as the Singapore-based Mr. Cupid, which offers a “comprehensive Vietnamese marriage package” and five-day matchmaking tours. “No one ever came on our trip without finding their dream bride,” the site boasts.
In 2002, not long after Quyen went through her paces for her future husband, the Vietnam government outlawed commercial matchmaking services. The news media were reporting the phenomenon in vivid detail, and authorities said they were concerned that the business could be a cover for trafficking women into prostitution.
“They take hundreds of women at a time to a hotel and line them up for the men,” said Nguyen Thi Ngoc Hanh, vice chairwoman of the Ho Chi Minh City Women’s Union, a government agency that supports women. “It’s very disrespectful.”
But although driven underground, the practice continues, abetted by village matchmakers and secluded meetings with suitors.
Half the brides in such marriages are under age 21; half the grooms are 40 to 60.
“Sometimes the men ask them to pose naked,” Nguyen said. “It’s inhumane.”
Quyen still has vivid memories of going to the matchmaker’s house in Ho Chi Minh City, a 120-mile bus ride and a world away from Tan Loc.
“I was scared,” she said.
After Quyen made the final five, the man asked a few simple questions through an interpreter: How many brothers and sisters did she have? How far did she go in school?
They had dinner and Quyen agreed to marry him on the spot.
“My life in Taiwan is good,” she said during a visit to Tan Loc. “My husband and his family treat me well.”
Life is not so good, however, for the young men in Tan Loc who watch the exodus of marriage-aged women with despair. “If all the girls leave,” said Nguyen Hoang Mong, 19, “there won’t be anyone left for us. Marriage shouldn’t be about money. It should be about love.”
Oi, oi, oi! When to have sex the first time? Here’s what the Advice Chick says:
From the AdviceChick on what happens when you have sex too soon:
——-> Ladies, please listen. Notice the signs. Listen to your intuition. When you’re with a guy B.S. (that’s BEFORE Sex) everything is good. He calls all of the time. He responds to your emails almost instantly, he is available and is interested. Usually A.S.T.S. (AFTER sex too soon) he doesn’t (or rarely calls), ignores your emails, and isn’t available or interested. <——-
Occasionally I have a client who has decided to look for a mate overseas. While the reasons may differ, the risks are the same. And dating outside the US is risky. Take a look at this article for a few eye-openers:
Disappointment Awaits Men Seeking Foreign Brides Online
Sites promising exotic Asian, Russian women are often scams ... or worse
By Tom Glaister
I was in an internet café in Thailand last year, trying to work out which continent I should fly to next, when my attention was entirely absorbed by an attractive Thai girl who sat down next to me and logged in. She gave me one of those Thai smiles that could mean anything at all and then concentrated on her correspondence. I was beginning to wonder if Thailand had its merits after all and couldn’t help stealing repeated glances at her.
She was totally absorbed in her online conversations with four messenger windows going at once, however, and in each of them I could see the photo of a Western guy. The youngest had to be 45 at least.
I miss you.
When you coming back?
I wait for you but I no have money for my rent.
I looked at her again and realized she was wearing too much makeup and revealing clothes for the average Thai girl. She almost certainly worked in a bar as a hostess for Western guys looking for Eastern romance and now that their holidays were over, her “boyfriends” were back home at work, dreaming of the month or two they’d spent in Thai heaven. They’d be coming back as soon as they could afford it — if their “girlfriend” didn’t drain their bank accounts dry in the meantime.
Thailand, like Brazil or the Philippines, is full of Western guys trying their luck with women half their age. With terrible dress sense that betrays the serious lack of a woman’s touch, it can be pitiful to watch them trying to mend their hearts under flashing neon signs, sharing a common vocabulary of maybe 500 words with the women they meet.
It’s not easy getting old. Along with worrying about balding, beer guts and prostate cancer, many American men suffer the flip side of the national individualistic character — they end up feeling quite alone.
As school friends move away and get married, opportunities to make new social contacts tend to diminish with age. And our modern lifestyles often dictate that we work alone in front of a computer, shop alone in a supermarket and go home alone to apartments where neighbors don’t talk to one another.
Until the Internet came along, the natural desire to meet the opposite sex did much to boost the attendance at bars and evening classes in the hope of meeting that special someone. Drinking too much beer and pretending to be interested in learning Italian were the only options left open to the millions of Americans who simply didn’t know how else to meet anyone new.
Out of the bars
photo of dating siteBut then the advent of online dating sites meant the American guy could go hunting without having to get out of his dressing gown. Unshaven and unwashed he could woo any number of women by complimenting them on their profile photo and including the right kind of charismatic emoticon in the message to show his sensitive side. It made the first step in dating safe, voyeuristic and cheaper than buying drinks all night while searching for the courage to approach the blonde on the other side of the bar.
Which explains why some 40 million American men logged onto dating sites last year.
Yet there remained the fact that most of the women on American dating sites were … well, American.
“They’ve lost their femininity!” an American expat once told me when explaining his choice to move south to Mexico. “American women these days dress like men, talk like men and call you a chauvinist if you ask them to make you a cup of coffee.”
I thought of the aggressive, sexless look of the supermodels and the passing of the days when men tipped their hats to women in the street. Then the expat’s Mexican wife came in, brought us each another beer, wiped the table and went off to calm the crying children and prepare lunch.
Talk to American men who have married foreign women and 90 percent of them will have been attracted to the old-fashioned values of another culture. Dinner on the table, clean clothes in the cupboard and strong maternal instincts.
“Western women have been campaigning for equality for so long that happiness went out of the picture long ago.” another friend married to a Thai wife told me.
I initially thought this was a bit over the top until I learned that even complimenting a female co-worker can be considered grounds for sexual harassment. Have feminism and political correctness taken all the fun out of American love?
Well maybe. But there’s also the fact that, for many, exotic is erotic and there’s nothing like a foreign accent or complexion to hide the personality faults that stop domestic relationships getting off the ground.
Where to look?
I get asked this all the time by guys everywhere I go when they hear that I’m always on the road. Surely by now I must have found that paradise where sultry babes spend all day topless on the beach, ready to trade their bodies for a cocktail and a cheap pick-up line.
In fact, guys tend to be such suckers for this fantasy that Russian scam artists send out millions of emails allegedly from hot girls called Tanya or Olga. Accompanied by alluring photos, the messages promise eternal friendship, physical relationships or marriage.
In realilty, the people sending out these snares are often hairy Mafioso guys in their dressing gowns who know just how to talk to the average male libido. Should they convince someone that they really have found love, an actress is employed to turn on the emotional blackmail by phone and initiate the first in a series of requests for money to arrange her visa/buy a flight ticket/pay off kidnappers or any number of absurd pretexts. Naturally, she never gets on the plane.
But can true love be found abroad?
According to the senators who sponsored the recently-enacted International Marriage Broker Regulation Act designed to protect foreign women from stealthy male American predators, some 8,000 to 12,000 U.S. men marry foreign wives each year. The divorce rate of such couples is up to three times lower than the national average and hundreds of agencies exist to introduce American men to these Russian, Colombian or Filipina beauties. I just typed ‘Russian girls’ into Google and 9 of the first 10 results turned up mail order bride or dating services.
Introduction agencies can serve a valid role. The honest ones can put you in touch with women in the destination country looking for long-term relationships. They can arrange tours and help with translation and bureaucratic difficulties. Surfing around some of the sites I had to wonder about the motives of some of the women involved, however.
“My name is Ludmila and I am student of psychology. I am looking for man to care about me, care about our children and make my dream come true.”
Her script might have been a little more convincing if the accompanying video hadn’t shown her walking down a main shopping street in the Ukraine in lingerie. Other videos showed Russian student girls in bikinis, draping themselves around national monuments while they talked about their hobbies. I was somehow reminded of Miss World contestants talking about world peace. Then of course my girlfriend walked in and point blank refused to believe it was all part of my journalistic research…
Gold diggers?
So were these beautiful girls really looking for true love or were they just in it for the money?
Any American guy looking to marry a woman from a poorer country is always going to have the doubt at the back of his mind that she’s only going through the whole ordeal to get her hands on his bank account. And even if he’s too enamoured with the hobbies of his new love to think about it, the social stigma of a ‘mail order bride’ can make him the laughing stock of the community.
Thanks to the Beatles, we all know the money can’t buy you love and why else would a young woman choose to leave home and marry a stranger?
Before I left Thailand last year I found an interesting guide on the shelf of the airport bookshop that was a manual for foreign men and their Thai wives. On the left hand side of the book the text was in English and opposite the same content was written in Thai. The idea being that couples could read the book together and navigate their way through the cultural minefield which can sink mixed marriages before they get started.
Particularly enlightening was the section on money. Thai women were informed that ‘love and money are seen as separate and distinct concepts in Western society’ and that if their husbands seem stingy it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t care.
The men, on the other hand, were encouraged to understand that husbands in Thailand are expected to take care of the families of their brides. It’s simply a form of gratitude for having raised the wonderful woman they have now married.
It seems that sometimes we get so caught up in looking for ulterior motives that we forget some of the basics of human nature.
Since the beginning of time marriage has had a strong economic aspect in cultures all over the world. How long ago was it in the West that a young man’s suitability was based on his “prospects” and his ability to keep his bride “in the manner to which she has become accustomed?”
Many of us announce our wealth every day in the cars we drive, the clothes we wear, the places we frequent. And it’s not unreasonable to suppose that most women would prefer their partners to be reasonably solvent. Naturally, try to buy a feminist a drink and you might receive a knee to the groin but these are strange times…
Asking for trouble
Many Americans who marry foreign wives do end up getting scammed, cheated or abandoned once her visa comes through but they’ve usually invited trouble on themselves.
After years of loneliness they often step right off the plane into a bar in Bangkok and start dating the first girl who approaches them. Or else they choose a woman half their age who fulfills all their fantasies but who doesn’t speak English and who sees them only as a walking wallet.
Finding love abroad is mostly about common sense. For a start, you’re unlikely to find the woman of your dreams in a bar with girls doing pole dances in the corner.
Whether in Colombia, Russia or Thailand, respectable women with serious intentions live normal lives and it takes time to get to know them. You need to be able to speak at least some of the same language and have something in common. And if you expect her to emigrate, you might first want to live for a while in her country to appreciate what kind of culture she comes from.
And if you get to know her first on an Internet dating site, remember that no one who’s honest will ever ask you to send money upfront. Period. And if the first couple of telephone calls go well, jump on a plane and go to meet her — if you discover she has a bad drinking habit and she can’t stand your body odor … well, at least you’ll have found out in time.
Finding love abroad can be thrilling. Hell, it’s one of the things that keeps me on the road all the time.
But while the average Vietnamese girl might be half the weight of her American counterpart, she may not be able to get your jokes and a festival like Christmas probably won’t mean anything to her. She may cook food you’re not used to and hate the weather but hey, at least you probably won’t be able to understand what your mother-in-law says.
And lastly, before you go running overseas to look for love, ask a female friend if there’s any way you could make yourself more attractive before you go. Terrible body odor, drinking before noon and an inability to listen are turn-offs to women anywhere you go.
You wouldn’t believe how many women I work with who want to only date men over 6 feet tall. That’s the height of heightism, as far as I am concerned, and not a good idea for women to insist on anyway. Did you know that only 15% of American men are 6 feet or taller? That means that any woman insisting on over 6 feet is ELIMINATING 85% of perfectly good men. Seems pretty dumb to me.
Dating column: Women hypocrites for refusing to date short men
By Steve Penner
The first column I wrote three years ago dealt with the single issue that bugged me the most during the 23 years I ran the dating service LunchDates. Frankly, it was the aggravation caused by this issue that partially motivated me to start writing these columns.
I am referring to single women’s prejudice against meeting short men. Since I doubt that too many current readers actually saw that column, I decided to revisit the topic. After all, this is one area in which many women display all the shallowness and superficiality that they love to accuse men of possessing.
The same woman who is 10-20 pounds overweight, and who cannot understand why a man might not want to date her because of those few extra pounds ...; that same woman often will refuse to meet a man who is 2 inches shorter than her “ideal.”
During my years at LunchDates I interviewed women who were very flexible about a man’s religion, his hobbies, and even whether he was divorced. But the one criterion they would not budge on was his height!
I am not just talking about tall women. It is certainly understandable that a woman who is 5 feet 10 inches might want to meet a man over 6 feet tall. (In fact, though, the few women who stated that they were open to meeting men shorter than themselves tended to be taller women.)
What really perplexed me was the number of short women who insisted that they only would date men considerably taller than themselves. It was very common for women 5 feet 4 inches or under to state that they “absolutely” only wanted to meet a man at least 5 feet 10 inches, and they really preferred 6 feet.
I find it amazing how many women have attached an almost magical meaning to the height of 6-feet tall. If society tended to describe people in terms of inches rather than feet, I wonder how attractive it would sound to hear a man described as “72 inches tall,” rather than “70 inches.”
If you are skeptical, have a single man you know place an ad on an Internet dating site saying that he is 6 feet. Than have another man place an identical ad except for stating that he is only 5 feet 10 inches. I guarantee that the first ad will attract nearly twice as many responses from women!
Now many of the women I interviewed at LunchDates were “modern” women who insisted on equality in every way ...; except height. That is, they were educated, had good jobs, and earned a decent income. They only wanted to meet men who also were educated, had good jobs, and earned a decent income.
But those men also had to be tall! When pushed to the wall and asked their reasons, they replied with some of the following excuses:
* “I usually wear shoes with at least three to four-inch heels,” some women responded very naturally. They also frequently pointed out that many boots have even higher heels. So these women would add at least three to four inches to their own height just to pull even, then another few inches to make sure that the man on their arm was still taller.
* “My father, my brother, and all the men in my family are over 6 feet, so that is what I am used to,” one women stated, insisting that she KNEW that the average height of men was around 6 feet. When I tried to tell her that the median height of men was between 5 feet 8 inches and 5 feet 9 inches, she got up and angrily marched out of the interview room!
* “I am short, and I am looking for a man to father my children, and I don’t want to have short children,” a number of women told me, with a straight face, I might add.
* “I just feel safer when I walk down the street with a man who is much taller than me,” was also a common response.
* “I am only attracted to tall men, I just can’t help it!”
So where does this height bias leave short men? Behind the proverbial eight-ball, I am sad to say. After all, take a woman who is only 5 feet 2 inches, add three to four inches for her “heels,” another two to three inches so she can feel safe, and lo and behold, it is not unusual for such a women to refuse to meet any man under 5 feet 9 inches. That means she is eliminating about one-half of the male population.
I was especially disheartened when interviewing a man under 5 feet 6 inches. After all, it is easy to tell a single man or woman who smokes a pack a day that he or she would have a much higher Dating Quotient (that is be easier to match) if he or she quit smoking. It is a little more awkward to tell a woman who is very overweight that she will be difficult to match unless she drops a few pounds.
But a smoker can quit, and an overweight woman can lose weight. But there is not much a short man can do.
Fortunately I am not referring to all women. There are (and were) exceptions.
For research purposes, I occasionally would glance through my dating service’s “married file,” (a file that obviously contained the profiles of couples who met and married through LunchDates). I noted that many of the women in that file had stated in their interview that they really cared very little how tall their matches were, and that flexibility had translated into a very successful membership.
Then I looked through the file of people who had completed their membership at LunchDates without meeting anyone. Sure enough, it was full of those women who had insisted they would only meet men much taller than themselves.
Over the years I became increasingly frustrated by many women’s lack of flexibility in this area. Once I decided I was really going to “negotiate” with a short woman who was insisting that she only wanted to meet men over 6 feet. The woman had just stated that she was looking to get married and have children.
“You realize that if you are talking about growing old with a man, most people shrink a couple of inches as they hit old age,” I said.
The woman paused, thought about what I said, then responded “Well, if he’s going to shrink, all the more reason to only meet someone very tall!”
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